PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

OK, Currently trying to figure out why the car is running rich. MAP & TPS were throwing codes on a buddies scanner so i just replaced them and it changed nothing.

Cold start is at 14.7:1 and then begins to go rich as soon as the engine warms up (dipping into the high-mid 12's afr) and immediately under boost dips in the low 10's (10.3-10.1 afr).

I don't have access to a dyno (nearest is 2 1/2 drive) to figure it out or fancy scanners like EFI live so i'm just trying to see if i can get some ideas. I pretty much have a deal worked out for the car and neither of us care to move forward until it's resolved.

Thanks for ANY and ALL help you can offer.

The rundown.....
New 3 bar MAP & TPS installed
Rich on all 8 cylinders
Rich at all RPM
Super rich as soon as boost kicks in
FPR adjusted as low as 43 base psi and made no difference at all so it's back to the 58 base psi it was tuned at
o2 sensor just after each of the manifolds
stock computer
wideband after the turbo reading the AFR
160# Bosch hi imp injectors

LMK if what other info you may need to help diagnose this if any and thanks again!!

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

Can you look at what the map is doing? Do you have an extension harness or is the wiring extended? Mine had a bad connection and the map would flash way high not even in boost. Car would sputter and pop real bad and afr would drop. I had to rewire the connector. If it rich it could be the map reading incorrectly due to this.

Hank Peabody

iTrader: (2)

Bad o2 sensor it sounds like

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

OK...........just took it to the dealer to hook it up and see whats going on with it now and even though its speed density, its throwing a MAF code and he reset it, it came right back, reset it again and gone for now anway.

It's now cruising in the 14's afr and WOT is around 11.3-11.4! It's got power for days again!!!! Idk why that would make a difference, nor does a buddy of mine whose knowledge about this puts mine to shame, but so far so good!! Letting it cool now and gonna take it out again this afternoon for another drive and see how it's doing.

Cam72maro......i wish i had a way to look into what each sensor is doing individually but i don't. I have the adapter harness for to work with a 3 bar. If it does it again, i will have a closer look at that. The boost controller is tapped into it so i will take a Very close look at that connection if the condition returns! Currently its wrapped up tight in electrical tape and back by the firewall so it's a tad bit of a pita to do but will be the first place i look.

Hank, definitely wondered about the o2's and are on the list. I thought the Cam2 110oct fuel i got from the pump was unleaded but i'm reading online that it's the 104 that is unleaded so my o2's may be messed up but like i said now, it's suddenly running damn good again! its got me scratching my head for sure!!

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

Just confirmed, the 110 i was using is Leaded! So, if i pulled the o2's, would i be able to visibly see if they're shot from the lead or is that more like on a microscopic level??

Also, do the o2 sensors even come into play at WOT? My understanding is they only run in closed loop (cruising conditions).

Ryans99ls1

iTrader: (16)

O2 sensors dont matter at wot. But my car ran absolutely awful under normal conditions when the o2's went. I would replace them and have your tune reflashed if you can(to make sure the maf really is turned off)

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

sounds like dead o2's to me. they dont adjust at WOT but depending on your tune setup they can still have an effect. dead o2's will throw your fuel trims all outta wack and if the long terms are enabled they will carry over into WOT. when the dealer scanned and reset your ****, it reset the trims so the afrs are back where they should be, but likely wont stay there when they relearn from the dead o2s

also in order for it to be in speed density it has to be throwing the maf code so thats normal

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

good info! so your suggestion is if the AFR's go back to being rich, to replace the pair of o2's and ditch the leaded fuel? or should i have the o2's removed all together as some do and have the tune adjusted with them omitted?

Tally TransAm

iTrader: (17)

i prefer to run front o2's but leaded fuel will shorten the life of them. i also tune using ltft's (long term fuel trims) to build the fuel map but then disable them and only run stft (short term fuel trims) when i'm finished tuning so i dont have to worry about them effecting WOT.

if you want to continue running leaded fuel i would run open loop and delete them, but the tune will need to be tweaked a couple times throughout the year

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

well thats something the new owner will have to decide upon doing, depending on the primary use of the car. for me, it saw very little track use so drivability was the #1 goal for it. would it need any adjustment to the tune if it was taken to the track and used something 110+ unleaded since it was tuned for the leaded fuel? idk much about that sort of thing, or tuning in general to be honest. never got into it.

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

As mentioned, being SD it will have a maf code as the maf is failed (but won't set a CEL)

It wouldn't be O2 sensors at WOT as your LTFT's are disabled.

As far as being extremely rich out of nowhere I think what I would look at first is why did it have a map sensor code.

An incorrect map reading will definitely do it. You will need someone with HPT to scan the car. (going to be hard to diagnose without this IMO)

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

I agree, thats where I was going. When my car did this idle map would read like 130kpa instead of the normal 70-80kpa. The car would load up real bad, sounded weird and wouldn't run right while driving. It would only do it when it got hot, but with the code stored its something I would definitely keep in mind. O2's will do weird things as well. My old car with a trex acted real weird and would stumble around 3000rpms every time when going through the gears, didnt want to pull hard and wouldn't get on the limiter. It would also shows repeated misfires on the misfire counter only on cylinder number 1. I put new o2's in and the car acted like a totally different animal. Every time a tune a new car with old o2's I always replaced them or if I have weird problems I replace them.

Cam72aro

iTrader: (28)

Also, a way you can see if the map is reading incorrectly is to compare the map reading to the boost gauge readings.

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

well if it resorts back to running rich, i'll see if i can find anyone local'ish to me. sucks living out in the sticks most of the time!! lol

thanks for the input all. the suspect was originally the map sensor and or something to do with it apparently and will work on that. just glad it's nothing too terribly stupid lol