badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

What have you all done for the retro swaps? I see there are nice fancy bolt on kits for the popular factory equipped LS vehicles, but what about the retros?

I have a 1978 Camaro and want around 500-550 to the tires. I currently have a full bolt on H/C/I LS1 and makes 460 currently.

I like the Pro-chargers, but I have also seen the ones that bolt on top like traditional blowers.

Any advice would be awesome!!!

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I suggest a Procharger with their LSx transplant Bracket or one of their LSx transplant kits...

they fit really well in your generation of camaro.
even says in their documentation - 68-81 Camaro/Firebird Fittment in these vehicles is Confirmed



call Bob over at Brute Speed and he can tell you more details and get you sorted out...
http://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-1LS20...1LS200-F1I.htm

Bob@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (16)

Thanks, I appreciate it! Bob

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

Hmm, I was researching the Pro-chargers and found that it takes higher RPMs to kick in. Is this true? I have been told Magna-charger or Whipple for low end grunt. Thoughts?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

The roots style blowers (including the Eaton TVS) are awesome daily drivers since they give nearly instant boost. The torque and power is all down low sacrificing high RPM power. Roots blowers don't "build boost", they ram more air into the engine with rotor lobes than the engine can spit out. They also tend to put air into the engine in pulses instead of a smooth flow, but are the most reliable supercharger. They can easily be by-passed allowing great fuel economy too.

The Twin screw supercharger is sort of the best all-rounder option. They make amazing daily drivers since it builds boost much like a roots blower (down low and nearly instant), and the twin screw will still have more than enough top end power to be lethal at a road course or a drag strip. The twin screw supercharger gives their power very smoothly and predictibly. They can be tricky to by-pass however and have issues with always boosting even at cruise. The tighter tolorences than a roots blower is part of their downfall. Although way more reliable than a turbocharger, the screws will wear out over time.

The centrifugal supercharger is (as was stated above) very turbocharger-like in operation. They build boost in the housing like a twin screw, but only with an impeller. They are limited by by your engine RPM like the twin screw, only they typically dont start to build boost till 3,000RPM's in most applications. Because of this they can be very "surg-ey" when accelerating. The boost built is entirely dependant on pulley size. For example if you buy a centrifugal supercharger with a x.x" pulley designed to make 8psi on your engine, then it won't make 8psi until your engine red lines. Centrifugal superchargers also tend to be the least reliable of group, inherently with their much higher operating RPM.



HOWEVER>>>>>>>>

with a little planning you can do things to make any of them respond better than the other or like you want it or need it to

an easy trick with a Centrifugal style is to Pulley it for a Higher amount of Boost, and use a Wastegate to control how much Boost you actually make...meaning it will come on earlier in the RPM, and make a flat amount of boost until redline

That is the approach I am doing on my setup... I'll be spinning my motor 7400~7800 rpm....and spinning the Supercharger close to 74,000 RPM(the recommended Safe Limit according to Procharger)
I have no idea how much boost it will make, and you cant know until you put it on your setup and try it....especially since Boost is just a measure of restricted air...meaning..8 PSI might make 650 HP on one setup and 850 HP on another setup that flows better
the total CFM that your engine can swallow before it builds boost will determine your overall boost levels.

also, with a Centrifugal, typically it doesnt fall off at higher rpms like a maggie/whipple will...it will continue to make power WELL past redline

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

also, for your goal of 550 at the tires.....
we took a stock internals LS6 CTS-V full bolt-on's with a Patriot heads and cam package, and put a maggie on it.....6.5 PSI, made 530 to the wheels with an M6 and the Stock 3.42 Rear...and this was on a conservative dyno that typically read about 8% less than a dynojet reads

Pump gas, 12.5:1 AFR, 26* timing

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for that post!! What model of mag did you use on the LS6?

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

I think it was an MP112 if I recall correcly

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

this is the car...

Bob@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (16)

MagnaChargers do make low end power but they tend to have a problem with heat soak. On a dyno their first run is typically their best as they lose a lot of power when they get hot. Take a look at the dyno sheet found at the link here. http://shop.brutespeed.com/Brute-Spe...d-Camshaft.htm
This CTS-V made 400 lt lbs of torque at 2000 rpm and made 864 rwhp up top with only 12.4 psi of boost. This was with a ProCharger F-1A. The customer took his car to another shops dyno day and it made 900 rwhp on their dyno.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...v/viewall.html
https://www.google.com/search?q=Bob+...w=1280&bih=578
http://www.planetlsx.com/vehicles/Extreme_Luxury/94
Take a look at these links of this CTS-V. Bob

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

Why would a pro-charger not be susceptible to heat soak as well?

Bob@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (16)

Heat rises and when a blower is sitting directly on top of the engine, it is going to absorb a large amount of heat. A ProCharger does not soak engine nearly as much heat as a positive displacement supercharger does. Our '95 Formula with a ProCharger on it does very well in bracket racing, as it is very consistent. Try making repeated rounds with a positive displacement supercharger, and the times normally fall off. Bob

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

If I went with a Pro-Charger, Are there any kits out there for my car? I see the 4th gens kit is really specific for that car (Where the intercoolers mount, plumbing, etc.) Looks like making the over all cost more?

Bob@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (16)

http://shop.brutespeed.com/LSx-Trans...ne-Kits_c3.htm

Take a look at the ProCharger Transplant kits at the above link. If you want to see a copy of the installation instructions, send me an e-mail to brutespeed@gmail.com requesting them. Thanks. Bob

soundengineer

iTrader: (16)

the problem you face, is that there isnt a Full kit for your car, because your car is not common enough for procharger to develop one with everything included...


there arent any kits for a 78 camaro with an LS Motor....
what there is.... is the transplant bracket that both myself and bob mentioned.

this will allow you to mount the supercharger in your car... the rest of the plumbing will be up to you....

you can buy pre bent tubing, and cut it off to the angles you need and use silicone couplers to connect it all, or you can weld together multiple pieces to fit the way you want.

as far as an intercooler goes...it doesnt necessarily have to be a "Procharger" cooler...it can be anybody's intercooler, and there are a LOT of options...I'm sure theres somebody who makes one in the dimensions that will fit somewhere on your car...and theres even the possibility that somebody makes something with a bracket ready to hang with no fabrication needed.(that is far more likely than a full kit in your case)

and you would be surprised...you can come out cheaper in the overall if you do some searching on the internet for good deals on tubing and intercoolers...
many times the price you pay is for R&D and for somebody elses Labor to cut and bend tubiung.

badazz81z28

iTrader: (6)

I may have to take some good with the bad. After looking at the documents Bob sent me, it appears a top mount Whipple or TVS is best suited for me. There is too much fabrication involved and relocation of items I don't want to relocate with the universal Pro-Charger kit. This will drive longer vehicle down-time....
The top mount supercharger I can basically put on with less effort.

Which is best suited all around? The twin screw? Is that the Whipple?

Bob, do you sell the other superchargers?