Another noob with build questions
12-17-2013, 09:51 PM
#1
Launching!
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Another noob with build questions Well this will be my first turbo build and was looking for suggestions
Car: 95 z28, mn12 t56
Engine- iron 370
Diamond forged -15cc pistons
Scat I beam rods with ARP rod bolts
Stock crank and main bolts
ARP head studs, double roller timing chain
Ported 862 casting heads i already have with 241 casting intake valves, with ls9 head gaskets should bring my static compression to 9.79:1
Ported FAST 102/NW102
The turbo kit will be a huron speed truck manifold kit, comp billet 7679 .96 ar, I want to run 93 octane. I was hoping I could make 600rwhp or more with a safe boost level on pump gas but was wondering if some experienced people could give me a few suggestions. Just from looking at similar setups over the past few weeks I think 10 psi would make 600rwhp or more? I would like to run a good 10 second quarter mile.
According to an online calculator 60-65Lb/hr fuel injectors would be sufficient, and I was wondering if a 310 lph fuel pump would be sufficient through stock fuel lines as well?
Rear differential gear size? This car is just going to be a fun street car with some track time. I will be building a 9" and was looking for gear suggestions. 3.73s? 3.55s?
Affordable boost controllers? Manual would be fine Im sure.
Ill probably just have a custom cam specced out.
Car: 95 z28, mn12 t56
Engine- iron 370
Diamond forged -15cc pistons
Scat I beam rods with ARP rod bolts
Stock crank and main bolts
ARP head studs, double roller timing chain
Ported 862 casting heads i already have with 241 casting intake valves, with ls9 head gaskets should bring my static compression to 9.79:1
Ported FAST 102/NW102
The turbo kit will be a huron speed truck manifold kit, comp billet 7679 .96 ar, I want to run 93 octane. I was hoping I could make 600rwhp or more with a safe boost level on pump gas but was wondering if some experienced people could give me a few suggestions. Just from looking at similar setups over the past few weeks I think 10 psi would make 600rwhp or more? I would like to run a good 10 second quarter mile.
According to an online calculator 60-65Lb/hr fuel injectors would be sufficient, and I was wondering if a 310 lph fuel pump would be sufficient through stock fuel lines as well?
Rear differential gear size? This car is just going to be a fun street car with some track time. I will be building a 9" and was looking for gear suggestions. 3.73s? 3.55s?
Affordable boost controllers? Manual would be fine Im sure.
Ill probably just have a custom cam specced out.
Last edited by Snkebait95; 12-18-2013 at 08:17 AM.
12-18-2013, 08:29 AM
#2
600 could be doable on just 10 psi depending on the cam. Always upscale your injectors for extra headroom. With that turbo, you won't be satisfied with 600whp especially when it has a few hundred more in it. 10 psi will be 12 within a week, and then 16 before long.
80 lb injectors aren't much more expensive than 60s. You can get em for $340 on eBay. Also, walbro sells a 400 lph pump that's OEM spec for $130.
80 lb injectors aren't much more expensive than 60s. You can get em for $340 on eBay. Also, walbro sells a 400 lph pump that's OEM spec for $130.
12-18-2013, 08:42 AM
#3
Launching!
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Thanks for the insight. That 400lph sounds good as long as it wouldnt be too much for my goals. I definitely wouldnt mind going to 12 Lbs if the engine could handle it.
I was also looking at the turbosmart e-boost boost controller unless a cheaper manual one could get me by. I would like to set it at 10-12 psi then leave it alone.
I was also looking at the turbosmart e-boost boost controller unless a cheaper manual one could get me by. I would like to set it at 10-12 psi then leave it alone.
12-18-2013, 10:03 AM
#4
Engine:
You built a forged 6.0 to make 600hp at 10lbs? People are running 1000+ HP on similar builds. You could make 600whp with a 100% original OEM block/cam/heads unopened 6.0 with that turbo on pump gas with alky inj.
I don’t get it… Whats the point in building a turbo motor if you can’t run a decent amount of boost? It’s like building a nitrous motor and spraying a 25hp shot. Only turbo kits take 10x the effort and money to install.
If you want to build a turbo motor for pump gas you need to drop compression more. I’d sell the 862 heads and look for a set of 317’s. (they have the larger runners and valves too) That alone should drop roughly a point of compression. You could easily run 15-16lbs on pump gas and make well over your goal “safely”. Then run alcohol Inj on top of that for big boost. You lose roughly 4% NA hp per point of compression lost. It’s not a major drop. You should have plenty of torque with a 6.0 down low anyway. My JY 5.3 did wheelies with 1.3x 60' times and ran 8's with 8.6:1 compression.
Cam:
Custom spec’d cam’s are nice. Totally unnecessary for 600hp IMO, but if you can afford it… why not.
Fuel:
You overbuilt the motor yet just want an sufficient fuel system? I’d go with 80’s minimum. OEM 3/8 hardlines have made 800+whp on E85 with a lot of pump and pressure. You’ll be good there if you don’t skimp on the pump. I’d go with the walbro 450lph e85 pump minimum. Similar to the 400, yet put out a bit more for not much more money. Also ethanol compatible if you ever want to run it.
You have to remember you need a lot of pump with boost. A "340 LPH" pump only pumps 340 lph at its rated pressure. (usually 40-43psi) If you run 10lbs of boost you have to add that to the total pressure at the rail. That "340 LPH" pump won’t put out 340 lph at 53psi. Flow drops pretty drastically with pressure increase. That’s why it’s always good to get the bigger injectors fuel lines pumps etc on a turbo build. You need to map out a pumps flow at the pressure levels you will be running it.
Rear:
What chassis will this be going in? Weight?
9” rears are HEAVY. They eat a ton of power and are totally unnecessary on most (reasonable weight) street/strip setups. An 8.8 is half the weight and can be built to handle almost anything you can throw at it. (again if this is going in a 5000lb truck that’s a different story)
Gearing again depends on weight, Trans used, desired cruise rpm and mph, how high you want to rev the engine, tire height etc… I like using non OD trans and tall gears. Something like a powerglide or th400 with a 3.08 and tall tire. Turbo setups like to he loaded up (to a point) and usually make more than enough torque to pull a tall gear. IMO launching 600ftlb+ with short gears is damn near impossible on the street without computer aid. If going auto, converter selection can make a break a turbo setup as well. Don't skimp there.
Boost control:
You can make a boost controller for $10-$30 that will cover most people needs. I like to use a mini pneumatic regulator ($16 ebay) and both ports on the WG. Mount the regulator **** on the dash and I can dial in what I want the boost at in the driver seat.
plumbed like so...
You built a forged 6.0 to make 600hp at 10lbs? People are running 1000+ HP on similar builds. You could make 600whp with a 100% original OEM block/cam/heads unopened 6.0 with that turbo on pump gas with alky inj.
I don’t get it… Whats the point in building a turbo motor if you can’t run a decent amount of boost? It’s like building a nitrous motor and spraying a 25hp shot. Only turbo kits take 10x the effort and money to install.
If you want to build a turbo motor for pump gas you need to drop compression more. I’d sell the 862 heads and look for a set of 317’s. (they have the larger runners and valves too) That alone should drop roughly a point of compression. You could easily run 15-16lbs on pump gas and make well over your goal “safely”. Then run alcohol Inj on top of that for big boost. You lose roughly 4% NA hp per point of compression lost. It’s not a major drop. You should have plenty of torque with a 6.0 down low anyway. My JY 5.3 did wheelies with 1.3x 60' times and ran 8's with 8.6:1 compression.
Cam:
Custom spec’d cam’s are nice. Totally unnecessary for 600hp IMO, but if you can afford it… why not.
Fuel:
You overbuilt the motor yet just want an sufficient fuel system? I’d go with 80’s minimum. OEM 3/8 hardlines have made 800+whp on E85 with a lot of pump and pressure. You’ll be good there if you don’t skimp on the pump. I’d go with the walbro 450lph e85 pump minimum. Similar to the 400, yet put out a bit more for not much more money. Also ethanol compatible if you ever want to run it.
You have to remember you need a lot of pump with boost. A "340 LPH" pump only pumps 340 lph at its rated pressure. (usually 40-43psi) If you run 10lbs of boost you have to add that to the total pressure at the rail. That "340 LPH" pump won’t put out 340 lph at 53psi. Flow drops pretty drastically with pressure increase. That’s why it’s always good to get the bigger injectors fuel lines pumps etc on a turbo build. You need to map out a pumps flow at the pressure levels you will be running it.
Rear:
What chassis will this be going in? Weight?
9” rears are HEAVY. They eat a ton of power and are totally unnecessary on most (reasonable weight) street/strip setups. An 8.8 is half the weight and can be built to handle almost anything you can throw at it. (again if this is going in a 5000lb truck that’s a different story)
Gearing again depends on weight, Trans used, desired cruise rpm and mph, how high you want to rev the engine, tire height etc… I like using non OD trans and tall gears. Something like a powerglide or th400 with a 3.08 and tall tire. Turbo setups like to he loaded up (to a point) and usually make more than enough torque to pull a tall gear. IMO launching 600ftlb+ with short gears is damn near impossible on the street without computer aid. If going auto, converter selection can make a break a turbo setup as well. Don't skimp there.
Boost control:
You can make a boost controller for $10-$30 that will cover most people needs. I like to use a mini pneumatic regulator ($16 ebay) and both ports on the WG. Mount the regulator **** on the dash and I can dial in what I want the boost at in the driver seat.
plumbed like so...
Last edited by Forcefed86; 12-18-2013 at 10:15 AM.
12-18-2013, 04:49 PM
#5
Launching!
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Long story short i bought this engine last year and ran it, and it was covered
Under warranty when i found piston oil ring pieces on my drain plug magnet. So I had him changed the pistons from -4cc to -15cc because decided to go turbo. So I already have this forged engine, and 600-650rwhp is more than enough for me. I know people push the stock cranks up to 800+ but i just want this thing to last a while and ive never messed with turbos before.
Now I didnt think 9.79:1 compression would be bad at all at the boost levels i want to run because of all the guys who boost the stock 5.3ls which have 9.5:1 compression. But again correct me if you have a better suggestion (i know you did already forcefed, but do you still like 9.7:1 is still to high fr pump gas and around 10-12 pounds of boost? i do have a set of stock 799s laying here which has a combustion chamber of 64cc vs 61. So should I still shoot for under 9:1 that being said?
I definitely dont want to run alcohol because of cost and im unknowledgable, I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Fuel pump- point taken.
And Im familiar to the fact turbo applications like high load, and it is a t56 so i was still thinking 3.55 rear gear?
Thanks for all the help!
Under warranty when i found piston oil ring pieces on my drain plug magnet. So I had him changed the pistons from -4cc to -15cc because decided to go turbo. So I already have this forged engine, and 600-650rwhp is more than enough for me. I know people push the stock cranks up to 800+ but i just want this thing to last a while and ive never messed with turbos before.
Now I didnt think 9.79:1 compression would be bad at all at the boost levels i want to run because of all the guys who boost the stock 5.3ls which have 9.5:1 compression. But again correct me if you have a better suggestion (i know you did already forcefed, but do you still like 9.7:1 is still to high fr pump gas and around 10-12 pounds of boost? i do have a set of stock 799s laying here which has a combustion chamber of 64cc vs 61. So should I still shoot for under 9:1 that being said?
I definitely dont want to run alcohol because of cost and im unknowledgable, I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Fuel pump- point taken.
And Im familiar to the fact turbo applications like high load, and it is a t56 so i was still thinking 3.55 rear gear?
Thanks for all the help!
Engine:
You built a forged 6.0 to make 600hp at 10lbs? People are running 1000+ HP on similar builds. You could make 600whp with a 100% original OEM block/cam/heads unopened 6.0 with that turbo on pump gas with alky inj.
I don’t get it… Whats the point in building a turbo motor if you can’t run a decent amount of boost? It’s like building a nitrous motor and spraying a 25hp shot. Only turbo kits take 10x the effort and money to install.
If you want to build a turbo motor for pump gas you need to drop compression more. I’d sell the 862 heads and look for a set of 317’s. (they have the larger runners and valves too) That alone should drop roughly a point of compression. You could easily run 15-16lbs on pump gas and make well over your goal “safely”. Then run alcohol Inj on top of that for big boost. You lose roughly 4% NA hp per point of compression lost. It’s not a major drop. You should have plenty of torque with a 6.0 down low anyway. My JY 5.3 did wheelies with 1.3x 60' times and ran 8's with 8.6:1 compression.
Cam:
Custom spec’d cam’s are nice. Totally unnecessary for 600hp IMO, but if you can afford it… why not.
Fuel:
You overbuilt the motor yet just want an sufficient fuel system? I’d go with 80’s minimum. OEM 3/8 hardlines have made 800+whp on E85 with a lot of pump and pressure. You’ll be good there if you don’t skimp on the pump. I’d go with the walbro 450lph e85 pump minimum. Similar to the 400, yet put out a bit more for not much more money. Also ethanol compatible if you ever want to run it.
You have to remember you need a lot of pump with boost. A "340 LPH" pump only pumps 340 lph at its rated pressure. (usually 40-43psi) If you run 10lbs of boost you have to add that to the total pressure at the rail. That "340 LPH" pump won’t put out 340 lph at 53psi. Flow drops pretty drastically with pressure increase. That’s why it’s always good to get the bigger injectors fuel lines pumps etc on a turbo build. You need to map out a pumps flow at the pressure levels you will be running it.
Rear:
What chassis will this be going in? Weight?
9” rears are HEAVY. They eat a ton of power and are totally unnecessary on most (reasonable weight) street/strip setups. An 8.8 is half the weight and can be built to handle almost anything you can throw at it. (again if this is going in a 5000lb truck that’s a different story)
Gearing again depends on weight, Trans used, desired cruise rpm and mph, how high you want to rev the engine, tire height etc… I like using non OD trans and tall gears. Something like a powerglide or th400 with a 3.08 and tall tire. Turbo setups like to he loaded up (to a point) and usually make more than enough torque to pull a tall gear. IMO launching 600ftlb+ with short gears is damn near impossible on the street without computer aid. If going auto, converter selection can make a break a turbo setup as well. Don't skimp there.
Boost control:
You can make a boost controller for $10-$30 that will cover most people needs. I like to use a mini pneumatic regulator ($16 ebay) and both ports on the WG. Mount the regulator **** on the dash and I can dial in what I want the boost at in the driver seat.
plumbed like so...
You built a forged 6.0 to make 600hp at 10lbs? People are running 1000+ HP on similar builds. You could make 600whp with a 100% original OEM block/cam/heads unopened 6.0 with that turbo on pump gas with alky inj.
I don’t get it… Whats the point in building a turbo motor if you can’t run a decent amount of boost? It’s like building a nitrous motor and spraying a 25hp shot. Only turbo kits take 10x the effort and money to install.
If you want to build a turbo motor for pump gas you need to drop compression more. I’d sell the 862 heads and look for a set of 317’s. (they have the larger runners and valves too) That alone should drop roughly a point of compression. You could easily run 15-16lbs on pump gas and make well over your goal “safely”. Then run alcohol Inj on top of that for big boost. You lose roughly 4% NA hp per point of compression lost. It’s not a major drop. You should have plenty of torque with a 6.0 down low anyway. My JY 5.3 did wheelies with 1.3x 60' times and ran 8's with 8.6:1 compression.
Cam:
Custom spec’d cam’s are nice. Totally unnecessary for 600hp IMO, but if you can afford it… why not.
Fuel:
You overbuilt the motor yet just want an sufficient fuel system? I’d go with 80’s minimum. OEM 3/8 hardlines have made 800+whp on E85 with a lot of pump and pressure. You’ll be good there if you don’t skimp on the pump. I’d go with the walbro 450lph e85 pump minimum. Similar to the 400, yet put out a bit more for not much more money. Also ethanol compatible if you ever want to run it.
You have to remember you need a lot of pump with boost. A "340 LPH" pump only pumps 340 lph at its rated pressure. (usually 40-43psi) If you run 10lbs of boost you have to add that to the total pressure at the rail. That "340 LPH" pump won’t put out 340 lph at 53psi. Flow drops pretty drastically with pressure increase. That’s why it’s always good to get the bigger injectors fuel lines pumps etc on a turbo build. You need to map out a pumps flow at the pressure levels you will be running it.
Rear:
What chassis will this be going in? Weight?
9” rears are HEAVY. They eat a ton of power and are totally unnecessary on most (reasonable weight) street/strip setups. An 8.8 is half the weight and can be built to handle almost anything you can throw at it. (again if this is going in a 5000lb truck that’s a different story)
Gearing again depends on weight, Trans used, desired cruise rpm and mph, how high you want to rev the engine, tire height etc… I like using non OD trans and tall gears. Something like a powerglide or th400 with a 3.08 and tall tire. Turbo setups like to he loaded up (to a point) and usually make more than enough torque to pull a tall gear. IMO launching 600ftlb+ with short gears is damn near impossible on the street without computer aid. If going auto, converter selection can make a break a turbo setup as well. Don't skimp there.
Boost control:
You can make a boost controller for $10-$30 that will cover most people needs. I like to use a mini pneumatic regulator ($16 ebay) and both ports on the WG. Mount the regulator **** on the dash and I can dial in what I want the boost at in the driver seat.
plumbed like so...
12-18-2013, 05:28 PM
#6
Long story short i bought this engine last year and ran it, and it was covered
Under warranty when i found piston oil ring pieces on my drain plug magnet. So I had him changed the pistons from -4cc to -15cc because decided to go turbo. So I already have this forged engine, and 600-650rwhp is more than enough for me. I know people push the stock cranks up to 800+ but i just want this thing to last a while and ive never messed with turbos before.
Now I didnt think 9.79:1 compression would be bad at all at the boost levels i want to run because of all the guys who boost the stock 5.3ls which have 9.5:1 compression. But again correct me if you have a better suggestion (i know you did already forcefed, but do you still like 9.7:1 is still to high fr pump gas and around 10-12 pounds of boost? i do have a set of stock 799s laying here which has a combustion chamber of 64cc vs 61. So should I still shoot for under 9:1 that being said?
I definitely dont want to run alcohol because of cost and im unknowledgable, I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Fuel pump- point taken.
And Im familiar to the fact turbo applications like high load, and it is a t56 so i was still thinking 3.55 rear gear?
Thanks for all the help!
Under warranty when i found piston oil ring pieces on my drain plug magnet. So I had him changed the pistons from -4cc to -15cc because decided to go turbo. So I already have this forged engine, and 600-650rwhp is more than enough for me. I know people push the stock cranks up to 800+ but i just want this thing to last a while and ive never messed with turbos before.
Now I didnt think 9.79:1 compression would be bad at all at the boost levels i want to run because of all the guys who boost the stock 5.3ls which have 9.5:1 compression. But again correct me if you have a better suggestion (i know you did already forcefed, but do you still like 9.7:1 is still to high fr pump gas and around 10-12 pounds of boost? i do have a set of stock 799s laying here which has a combustion chamber of 64cc vs 61. So should I still shoot for under 9:1 that being said?
I definitely dont want to run alcohol because of cost and im unknowledgable, I want to keep it as simple as possible.
Fuel pump- point taken.
And Im familiar to the fact turbo applications like high load, and it is a t56 so i was still thinking 3.55 rear gear?
Thanks for all the help!
3.55 would be fine. 3.27 would be better IMO.
Good luck!
12-18-2013, 05:57 PM
#7
Stock short blocks have been in the 8s. Like said before, with that forged motor, 600whp is laughable. dont sweat it at that power level. That turbo is capable of 50% more power than you're looking to run.
I would get 80s and at least a single walbro 400. With this you'll be set for 750whp on gas, limited by the pump.
As for methanol injection, a basic kit costs just a tick over $200 and is well worth it. Install isn't difficult, and it will make a huge difference in knock resistance and IATs when running pump gas. I think any setup above 10 psi can benefit from it, unless you're running very low compression.
I would get 80s and at least a single walbro 400. With this you'll be set for 750whp on gas, limited by the pump.
As for methanol injection, a basic kit costs just a tick over $200 and is well worth it. Install isn't difficult, and it will make a huge difference in knock resistance and IATs when running pump gas. I think any setup above 10 psi can benefit from it, unless you're running very low compression.
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12-18-2013, 10:05 PM
#8
Launching!
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Ok thanks for the tips on the fuel parts. I forgot to mention Im already on a speed density tune and plan to run a 2 bar MAP sensor.
I was reading the "truck manifold" stickies in this section and they mention welding in an extra 02 bung for your tuner's easy access. I was wondering does the bung need to be in the exhaust manifold before the turbo or in the downpipe?
I was reading the "truck manifold" stickies in this section and they mention welding in an extra 02 bung for your tuner's easy access. I was wondering does the bung need to be in the exhaust manifold before the turbo or in the downpipe?
12-19-2013, 06:27 PM
#10
Launching!
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I meant in the merge by the way but anyways the downpipe makes more sense. Where do you or your tuners put their widebands when you had your cars tuned?
12-20-2013, 09:39 AM
#12
All sensors will be downstream of the turbo. Never put one preturbo, it gives false readings.
WB02 manufacturers will have a specification for their particular sensor. The LSU4 bosch "cheap" WB02 sensors are suggested 12-24" downstream of the turbo to extend life due to heat.
WB02 manufacturers will have a specification for their particular sensor. The LSU4 bosch "cheap" WB02 sensors are suggested 12-24" downstream of the turbo to extend life due to heat.
01-10-2014, 11:06 AM
#14
Launching!
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One more question! Well I plan on swapping my current ported 862s, fast 102, and cam to my c5. For this turbo build ill be picking up some 317s or 799s depending on my piston volume, or the 241s from my vette. Now My question is how does an ls1 intake manifold perform under boost? I dont mind picking up an ls6 manifold but free parts are always nice.