forcd ind

iTrader: (7)

kind of hard to say which is best-I guess some depends on your skills
if you have to pay someone to do everything, a turbo could get expensive
having the proper cam and converter for the combo goes a long way regardless of what's supplying the boost
I have no turbo experience (yet) but like to fab, some maybe somewhere down the road
I have had 10-15 Procharged cars, old D1B's, F1A, FiR, F2, D1SC's-i like them, esp for the street-and I like the sound, lol
cant deny the power from the turbos though, and the ability to go cheap
I would pick a setup right up front for your alt. goal
all my setups were for blowthru carbs, this is my first attempt at FI, was a huge learning curve, as I am a do it yourselfer, so I get hardheaded
intercooling presents another problem, I kind of like the packaging of that deal with the Holley 2 piece intake, and the intercooler that gets sandwiched in bet.-be interesting how it works out

fordkilla2000

I'm going with the D1SC I have a 228R cam and a 3500 stall should I change the stall?

js2fst

iTrader: (12)

So you are saying that red hot turbo that has your engine oil running thru is good on oil? Synthetic oil? My cousin actually was on the team that designed Mobil one. He states run a blend. I have had great luck! What about when a oil line comes off? How clean does a turbo motor burn? What about heat soak.

Bob@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (16)

The P-1SC-1 complete system does come with either a 5 or 7 psi pulley size, and is meant for either bone stock or cat back only equipped vehicles. This P-1SC-1 complete system is the only one that is carb certified.

The P-1SC-1 tuner kit comes with whatever boost level you want it to make, as long as it is within the range of what the P-1SC-1 can produce. The P-1SC-1 is capable of making more boost than the older P-1SC that it replaces in the 98-02 F Body. Somewhere around 14 psi is the limit to what the P-1SC-1 can produce on an LS1, depending on the combination. The tuner kit comes with everything the complete system comes with, except that it deletes the fuel injectors, fuel pump and tune.

The D-1SC is only available as a tuner kit, and again it comes with whatever boost level you want it to make, and long as it is within the range of what the D-1SC can produce. Somewhere around 17 psi is what the D-1SC is capable of producing, depending on the combination.

*Most of these kits are available in either a six rib or an eight rib blower belt. The eight rib belt requires replacing the factory harmonic balancer with one from ATI Performance Products, pn# 918853.
*Most of these kits are available with either the 3.5" twin intercoolers, 4.5" twin intercoolers or the front mount intercooler.
*The 1GJ204-SCI is the D-1SC tuner kit that automatically comes with the 4.5" twin intercoolers and the eight rib belt.

How much boost the blower can produce depends on many variables.
* Cubic inch. The larger the engine the less boost it will make with a supercharger.
* Headers and exhaust. A better flowing system will produce less boost, requires a smaller pulley to regain the loss in boost. Ultimately though, more power will be gained.
* Camshaft and heads. A camshaft with some overlap will leak out some boost through the valves. Better flowing heads react a lot like a better flowing exhaust system.
* Altitude. Elevation plays a big part in how much boost is produced. Those people living in the higher elevations have to spin the blower harder to see boost.
* Condition of engine. An engine with real good sealing rings will ultimately produce more boost than one with worn rings.
* Rpm. An engine that is spun up higher in the rpm range will normally produce more boost.

All of the above questions are asked (or should be) when an order is placed for a tuner kit, in order to assure the correct blower pulley is sized, so the customer will see the amount of boost he or she wants to make.

ProCharger has assigned a pn# to a kit I sell, starting with 1GJ204-SCI and then I add the additional required parts to it. Here is a link to it.
http://shop.brutespeed.com/ATI-1TE10...-Speed-Kit.htm

Let me know if you have any questions. Thanks. Bob

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

So, crap, guess I better start running a blend in my OEM turbo'd truck so the oil doesn't die?

Oh noez.

Mike 02T/A

iTrader: (28)

Just get the F1A and not worry about it! Avoid all the extra piping and oil feed, etc. It keeps everything simple, love it so far!

stage274

I am going to bring this post from the dead.

I am so happy I stayed with my Procharger set up on my TA. I had an 88 ball bearing kit, but sold it. And decided I like the procharger so much, I kept it.

I just bought a f1a to go with my newer forged 383 build. However, I was so happy on my stock set up, with my p1sc-1.

I was running 7 pounds and a 125 shot on the stock set up. I could have prob ran that for ten more years like that, without ever blowing the motor. The nitrous cooled the charge and never had a problem with that set up. Even on pump gas, but always mixed for safety reasons. I sold the motor because it was low milage, and it paid for my forge 383 set up. I am happy I went with my forged ls6 383. Stock 317 head, ls6 cam, 9.0 comp. I built that motor for the 88 mm turbo. But like I said, I love the blower kit so much, I stayed with it.

So I went with my 383, kept the same set up, p1sc-1 with 125 shot. However boost dropped to 5 pounds. With the 125 shot, I did pick up more boost though.

I don't know how fast my car is, but in fourth I would see 135 mph. The car is actually scary fast, at least 600 rear wheel min with that set up.

On that low amount of boost the car was extremely fast with the nitrous. It's fast without the nitrous, but it's a whole other ball game when the nitrous is being used. I will always use nitrous and a blower. And I spray after the blower, before the coolers, and boy does it cool the charge. Also it takes a half sec to reach the throttle body of the car, when leaving, the car is moving when the nitrous is fully engaged at the motor. I like that a lot.

Nitrous and a super charger was a pair made in heaven. Now we can compare this to a turbo car. See out of the hole sucked for my car, however add the nitrous, even leaving at idle, omg. I am gone. No bog, just goes.

Soon, my F1a will be bolted on with 15 lbs of boost, and at least 75 shot, if not the entire dry 125 shot that I have been always using. However my car is fast now, I think I am looking at a low 9 sec capable car. That will sound stock, drive stock, get 23 miles to a gallon, I swear I get stock gas milage now.

If we are talking a stock car here, get a D1 or a p1sc-1, and run a 75 shot of juice. Like i said before, it's a pair made in heaven.

I loved running my p1. I just took it off, and I turned the blower by hand, and I can spin the blower like butter. Its so easy to turn. It is fully broken in, I also noticed I don't get belt slip anymore. Broken in like this, I don't see it taken that much power away due to parasistic losses. I am really surprised how easy it is to turn the blower, once it is broken in. I tried to turn my new f1 by hand. It is so tough to turn by hand. I hope it breaks in like my p1 did. I am so amazed how the p1 turns when I took it off the car tonight, like butter.

So its my opinion, you can't beat procharger for the f bodies. Even, if you want crazy power, get an F1 and spay 75 out of the hole. It would be comparable to a turbo then, with the nitrous on.

You get massive low end toruqe with the nitrous. It ends the bogs out of the hole on stock blower set ups, and you can leave at idle with the nitrous on, and it just goes. I have been using blower and nitrous on my car for 10 years. Nothing is like it, and I promise you, no disappointments, especially on low boost, stock set ups, with the juice on.

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

Got timeslips, or dyno numbers?

My turbo car feels like 745hp at least.

stage274

Well my motor dynoed 500 ftlbs and 460 hp with a carb on the dyno, rich as ****.

I figure I have near 400 rear wheel, on my stock motor, my blower gave me 140 rear wheel without my headers on the stock motor. And I am spraying 125 shot. So 600 is a good estimate, with 600 ftlbs easy.

Shownomercy

iTrader: (1)

Ah, good ricer math indeed.

stage274

Soon my f1 is going on, from 5-6 pounds of boost it will see 16-18, and I will spray it also, at least 100 shot. I am looking at over 800, being conservative.

My car is really fast now, I don't know what I have done.. Ha ha.. It's going to be insane.. I might just spray it 50 hp. For cooling and out of the hole. But if I don't make the power I want, I will just spray more.

I really like the blower set up. I should of just kept the p1sc to tell you the truth, and max that out. It would have given me, 650 hp without nos, and could of made it up, with the nitrous. But, I had to get the f1a. Everybody loves them.

stage274

I dynoed the motor, it made 500 ftlb, and 460 hp. My blower on my 347 netted me 140 rwhp, without headers and a throttle body. It's not uncommon to make 525 to 550 rw on 347 and a p1sc-1. I have a stroker motor. Now add the nos, I am around 600.. Soon to be 800 rw..

It is not a stretch what I posted.

IronBlocked

hahah

The BallSS

iTrader: (9)

I just finished a Huron Speed V1 AC Hotside, stock cube, ported head, custom cam TC78 build and lag is a non-issue. I'm set at 6lbs and it comes on at 2,500 and hits hard enough to knock the Nitto NT05 315's off in 2nd gear then pulls like hell through the rest. I wanted to go S/C but am glad I went turbo. Car is a beast! I wrapped everything and did my home work and so far so good, doesn't over heat, doesn't bake the oil and runs like a scalded ape. I've heard more issues from Procharger cars than well planned turbo cars and that's the key, "well planned". Do your home work, plan accordingly, buy the right parts for your goals and you won't have any problems.

stage274

I would like to say, there is nothing like a turbo car, they are just amazing. But the ease of use with the procharger is very appealing on stock set ups. Also if you find a good used kit on the market for 3k or so, is another plus.

I know turbo cars are king when it comes to making power, but they come with many challenges. This is why I suggest to get a procharger and use nitrous to make the power up.

Procharger has proven themselves to be reliable set ups, and there are several people on this board that ran low nines with d1 set ups also.

The BallSS

iTrader: (9)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Procharger's because I'm definitely a fan. The major reason was I could piece together a turbo kit for close or less than the price of a Procharger kit and do it over time instead of having one big expenditure. The other reason was making torque down low and I know you can do that with PC's and a waste gate but then that's even more money. I didn't think the turbo was that bad to do honestly and I had never done one or owned a LS car up to that point, keeping my AC definitely increased the cost with a tubular k-member but if you don't mind ditching the AC there's more money to be saved in that and a few other related items. I could see how the PC would be much easier, probably install it in a day or two as opposed to multiple days with a turbo kit if everything went perfect... lol.

Bob@BruteSpeed

iTrader: (16)

Look at the torque at 2000 rpm.

http://shop.brutespeed.com/Brute-Spe...d-Camshaft.htm

http://www.superchevy.com/features/0...cadillac-ctsv/

https://vimeo.com/4192845
Video

LS2/402 9.5/1 compression, Brute Speed Cam, FAST 92 intake, F-1A at 12.4 psi of boost, Kooks 1-7/8 headers. 864 rwhp It made 809 rwhp at 14.4 psi of boost with an LS2 intake. Swapped to the FAST 92 and lost two pounds of boost but picked up hp. Customer took it to another shops dyno day and made 900 rwhp on their dyno. Bob

Kmspeedie

iTrader: (1)

I also went huron A/C kit over PC because it was cheaper initially.... i love how my car has turned out now and you can custom spec a turbo for ur goals unlike a blower, and witha boost controller in split second i can run 6lbs or 20lbs of boost.. which is nice because ill leave my co2 bottle off in the back of the car so i can only make 6lbs and it helps me not be an idiot on the street.. but the adjustability of turbos is awesome... and they sound like SEX. I wont knock blowers though because my dad had a 93 cobra he just sold with a novi and i loved the instant throttle response, but thats the ONLY pro i see in blowers..

stage274

That is amazing Bob. It was your work that made me a hard core believer. I honestly don't think there is a simpler way to bolt on that much power. These are tried and proven, over and over again. The guess work is totally eliminated.


Yeah, turbos do make huge power, but looking at that graph, proves Procharger can make as much. Let's be honest, who can use all that power anyways on the street? For the money, ease of installation, time needed to tune. Procharger is hard to beat, thus why they are so still popular on our cars.

I would so do it again in a heart beat. For a few reasons, I did not want a piece meal kit. I sold my 88 because it was piece meal. Even though I bought the best parts. The maker of the headers I bought at the time, are not even in business anymore.

Its problems like, making my own exhaust for the car, ie truck manifolds, or even going the easy route and mount them on the back, like sts does, that is very unapealing.
Where I just bolted my blower kit on in a few hours from the day I got the parts. It can be such a hassle with turbo builds, and can be overwhelming for a lot of people. It was for me, and I like wrenching on my own car. Forget letting a shop do a turbo build for you. The cost can add up fast.

Also, why I also like procharged cars, is, they can deceiving as hell, like on my car. My car looks the same from when it made 430 rwhp when I first bolted my kit up on a stock motor years ago.

If you are doing the real street drag thing, like in Il, and you call out others to race, nobody wants to race a turbo car. Or they want a 100 cars from you.

However with a procharged F body, the blower is hidden down low, and your import guys don't know what they are looking at.
Even if they do, they underestimate the car, especially if your car is as quiet as a stocker is. They are all over my car, asking what I want to do. I love how quiet my car is, all you hear is a plesent whistle and nothing else. I have 10 sec cars spot me out all the time. 6 and the hit, where my car can sit down heads up with most of them. I love that. When they hear my friends car, sound like john force, and they see a tire. They won't go near him, but he is really stock, running 12.60 or so.

We have a huge laugh when the import guys come at my car. My car does have 16 thousand miles on it, there is no reason to believe I took the motor out.

Looks stock, sounds stock, drives stock.

However when I am in it, it pulls like a freight train. Racing 1/4 mile, in fourth gear I am topping speeds around 135. It's kinda nuts actually.

That's with my p1sc-1 at 6 pounds of boost, and 125 shot. I am scared of the car already and that is on extremely low boost.

I just took off the p1sc-1 off the car yesterday, and replacing it as we speak with an f1a, which I got from Bob. Btw, thanks man, the freaking unit looks like a master piece, with the billet housing and impeller on it.


I am not sure what numbers I will see, my exhaust will kill 60 to 100 ponies of it.

But if I see 700 rwh just on the blower alone at 15 lbs. Then I am very happy. I can make the rest up with spray, like I always have done. I prob will add a cut out. I am so curious to see how much power a stock rear exhaust kills. I do have good headers and y pipe. However I have stock muffler and tips on the car. I seen people gain as much as 40 rwhp going to true duals on a natural aspirated 408 motor. That is huge hp to gain, but again, it would be to loud, and I loose my advantage. But I guess once something is locked in, I can open up, the cut off.


I have cocky import guys here, running 50 pounds of boost with spray, all wheel drive talon, who wants to set me out, 10 and he bust. It is a 9 second car actaully.

But they are given me 10 and the bust!

I have a race locked in when my car gets the f1a. 500 dollar race set. They think the car is 12.20s or worse.


One last point to why I recomend a procharger. If you have a stock car, with high compression, a turbo is a good way to blow it up. It is too easy to turn the wick up, or how about if the waste gate fails, which happened to me one time on my grand national. Also the heat kills the rings.

A procharger on a stock ls1 will make 430 to 500 on 7 pounds. Which can be driven for years and years. The heat stays very reasonable also. Like on cool nights, my intake temps are 72 degree cruising. You can also add 75 to 125 dry shot, without worrying also. You can have a 10 second, reliable car, that will last years, and years. I drove my car like that for 10 years, untill I just recently put in my stock 383 build. When it came to race time, I would spray 75 to 125 shot. Which cooled the charge significantly. I felt this was very reliable for me. No lean issues either. Even on pump, with spray, it was fine. Even though I mixed my gas for race nights.

The main thing is, the car would not bog leaving from idle, and would pull 8 cars or more on 02 z06s, when my motor was stock.

With out the nitrous, the car would bog down low, untill boost came on. But with the nitrous, no bogs, would just pull. And I would see full boost all time on nitrous pulls. Low boost and nitrous is a pair made in heaven, which you don't loose reliability I feel. The charge is very cool also.

These are my reasons why I choose procharger for my f body, even though I have been a turbo guy for most of my life.

Anybody reading this, and thinking which route they want to go with, especially on a stock car. Procharger wins hands down.

I would just call Bob, and order one. If anybody is still trying to mull it over, I think I provided some valid points. Best part, once the kit arrives, it's just a bolt on. Anybody can install one in my opinion. And it is very easy maintenance as well. Turbo cars also the oil breaks down faster. Because of the heat on them. I love no oil lines on the procharger kits, which I forgot to mention. You eliminate a major point of failure. 90 percent of the motor failures for turbo cars, is , people blow a hose , or a the seal on the turbo fails, and all the oil, all 6 quarts end up, on the street, or out the back of your exhaust.

Kmspeedie

iTrader: (1)

That was long as hell, and you cant say prochargers win hands down... i PROMISE you my 1k hp turbo camaro is quieter than ANYYYY procharged car making anywhere near that power, so you claiming that is ridiculous. Also turbo cars drive waaaaaay more like stock than blower cars do. Also boost is boost.... high compression motors dont like any type of it, so either setup can blow a motor up. Also, no1 wants to race a turbo car? are you kidding me lol... everyone wants to run me, compared to me rollin up with a obnoxiously loud F1 blower that would scare everyone.. Now im biased towards turbo as ive been around both setups and prefer turbo more, but for legitamite reasons. I would love to have a blower dont get me wrong, especially on a 6spd car, but the claims your laying out dont make sense at all. And also, turbos are way more tuneable. I mean blowers are rpm based compared to me where i could be at 6k rpm and like no boost at all.. also who wants a blower trying to rip the crank out of the motor... turbos are free horsepower and make more power because they dont take power to make power. You can spec a turbo ANYWAY you want to fit your exact goals.. theres so much more flexability with a turbo its crazy... and oil?? ok yes blowers have oil in them, who the hell wants that small amount of oil getting beat up time and time again.. and how many times you blower guys brake belts.... unlike turbos. And idk if you were making it out like turbo cars dont like spray, but we all know they do.. it eliminates any lag, just like your blower.
I just feel most of your points werent valid.. you had some but not many.
Then again i LOVE every type of boosted vehicle and almost went with a D1 kit, but boy am i glad i have my turbo setup..