CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

Oh that's what you were referring to. Yea, I'm moving mine off the firewall too. Didn't know that was a no no until after the fuel system was done. They never said anything at the track, but I'm going to do it right now.

stevieturbo

Surely it's quite clear English ?

So why does everyone switch from the OEM dead end system with regulator in tank to a return style with the FPR up front if a dead end system with the FPR before the rails is so good ?

You are essentially saying the stock layout is great and fine for all power levels.

Simple, because it isnt good, and pretty sure there was a thread here not that long ago where someones engine went pop, with the main reason being improper fuel system plumbing where he had the FPR just prior to the rails.

It is a less desirable way to do it, plain and simple. Can it work ? of course it can, but is it the best way ? absolutely not.

If it's the word desirable you dont understand..

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/desirable


And to say only reason it blew up is because of poor FPR placement....lets face it, if you did that install on a customers car or someones car....would you admit liability ? Would you even understand what might have been the cause ? Probably not.

There are many ways to build safe and reliable setups. You can insist on building ones with fundamental flaws if you like. That doesnt mean it is the best way to do things.

If you're going to the trouble of fitting an FPR with return line, then it makes sense to configure it properly....ie in a more desirable way

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

I'll explain. I recently learned what types of clutches are better for a transmission. Prior to that, a buddy just kept saying "this clutch is far superior than this other clutch". That's all he kept saying, nothing else. Well until he and someone else explained to me how one of the clutches didn't handle heat as well and when faced with boiling trans fluid temps, that one would handle it, and the other would delaminate, then I understood.

Your ambiguous answer (along with your signature) leads me to make a couple assumptions. You don't know what the hell you're talking about, and you just repeat what you've been told without having tested a thing. OR, you're just terrible at expressing your thoughts. Your last post proves you can express your thoughts, which after the process of elimination, leads me back to my first assumption.

stevieturbo

How is it ambiguous ? It's more than clear. Exactly which part do you not understand ?

And how does my sig or anyone elses have any relevance to the topic in hand ?

And we all know what assumptions are....

If you dont understand how fluid moves and is moved, and where pressure plays a part in that and where restrictions can also affect pressure in different parts of the system etc etc...well I cant be arsed explaining it.

You can build a fuel system whatever way you think is best...but the fact remains, putting the FPR before the rails and running the rails as dead ends is NOT the best way to do it, and really there are few reasons you would ever willingly choose to do it that way, other than it saves a hose or two.

If you choose to run dead end rails, then you should monitor fuel pressure at the end of those rails to ensure it is safe and stable at all times, because you can not be sure that pressure as seen at the regulator will be the same as pressure seen at the end of the rails.

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

And that is where you're wrong. Pressure will be the same everywhere. Flow is irrelevant as long as the injectors have pressure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_law

Your theory says that this ^^^^ isn't true.

stevieturbo

I'll write this and make it very clear with zero ambiguity.

NO IT IS NOT.

You're back to making assumptions again. It should be the same, but it may not be the same.

You are completely ignoring pipe runs and any restrictions, and the fact flow is involved.

If there is a restriction prior to the rails, even the regulator itself, the reg could still be sitting happily at say 60psi, but the injectors and engine consuming all the fuel beyond that restriction with pressure falling and you would naively never know until problems occur.

The only way to guarantee pressure is consistent over the injectors at all times is to site the FPR after all the injectors.

Now you can place it before and oversize all plumbing and yes it should sort that aspect, but it still is not the best way to plumb the system

Once again, if you think a dead end system is fine, why would you ever remove the OEM dead end setup with FPR in-tank ?
By your reckoning it would be fine for all power levels, as regardless fuel pressure at the very end of that setup would be exactly the same as at the pump outlet at all times.

Which is completely and utterly untrue.

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

That applies to a static fluid. If the fluid is in motion, there will be pressure losses due to friction, restrictions, boundary layers, etc. With the relatively low velocity of the fuel in the rails and minimal restrictions in the plumbing (this depends highly on the setup) it may be reasonable to assume that the pressure at the regulator is the same as at the injectors. However, it is best to measure pressure at the injectors since that is what we most care about in terms of flow rate and injector tuning.

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

I mean I knew you brits didn't like the French, but dang, ignoring a Mathematical fact that a Frenchman came up with.

Some guy on the internet thinks it won't work, but a dead mathematical genius says it will. I'm gonna roll with the Frenchman on this one. Have fun arguing with yourself homie.

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

I realized that, but like you pointed to, we're not putting a fire out with 10,000GPH, we're feeding 8 injectors, so it's not enough to make me even think twice about it.

stevieturbo

You're ignoring facts. You're not understanding them, and I hate the French.

Take an easier one to understand.

By your reckoning of french and other such mysterious things....

In a turbo system, pressure throughout the entire system will always be the same. ie 20psi at the intake, and you will always have 20psi at the compressor outlet.

I'll assume you know this is almost never true. Especially once an intercooler is added into the equation, and/or long pipe runs, bends etc.

So why do many see say 15psi at the intake, and 20psi at the compressor outlet ? According to you and Pascal, it should be 20psi everywhere ?
Some even see much larger variances depending on restrictions within the system.

it isnt a case of Pascal being wrong, it's a case of you misunderstanding what he has written

Ferocity02

iTrader: (60)

For the OP, here is a good link with some diagrams on different ways to setup the regulator: http://aeromotiveinc.com/wp-content/...3101-09-14.pdf

stevieturbo

Ys, and your fuel line, rails, regulator is not sized to flow 10,000gph either. A Firehose may be, and it also has a substantial pump behind it.

And even it will see much reduced pressure at the outlet the longer that fire hose gets

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

I'll go crank out some 9s at 4,000lbs with this new setup and you can tell me I'm wrong.

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

"9. Figure 1-1 depicts a fuel rail with only one fuel line connection, such as is commonly found on OEM factory fuel rails as used in late model “returnless” fuel systems beginning in 1999. Positioning the regulator after the fuel rail is optimum for performance applications, however your new Aeromotive regulator may be configured for a “returnless” type of engine/fuel rail by flowing into one of the regulator side ports from the pump and out of the opposite side port into the fuel rail. A return line must be routed from from the regulator bottom/return port back to the top of the fuel tank"

I bolded a word you would like first. However, I can do it the way I previously said I was going to.

Here's their email : TECH@AEROMOTIVEINC.COM Tell them they're wrong and you're right too while you're at it.

stevieturbo

And what relevance would that have ?

stevieturbo

So Aeromotive are saying EXACTLY what Ive been saying. Why would I need to email them ?

I'll re-quote from page 1 in case you missed it, where I explained in the simplest terms possible

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

Ls1tech: Where thinking outside the box and being different isn't allowed.

stevieturbo

Have you come up with something new ?

CameronVic

iTrader: (5)

Nope, but it's not the "typical" way, so therefor, I'm wrong. This is exactly how Denmah's 3.0 fairmont was done. He only had -6 feed, didn't melt the motor down hammering out a 9.6 at 144 pass right off the street. Guess he's wrong too!

jrpimp00

iTrader: (17)

You are making an argument against yourself and even quoted what stevieturbo is trying to explain. Running fpr regulator before the rail is "Less Desirable". Running fpr after the rails is "optimum". Those two things mean the same thing in my book in this situation. Less desirable to me is not optimal.

But do it the way you want and stop arguing with people when they try and answer your questions.