Flamed a TFS 6 bolt head on 28lbs of boost (Pics inside)
09-12-2014, 06:53 AM
#45
09-12-2014, 09:32 AM
#47
09-12-2014, 10:08 AM
#48
On what engine under what circumstances? I've never seen "rich knock" on any of my 6 engine models over the years. 4-6-8 cyls all on E85. My 4 and 6 cyls did log knock sensor readings. On my LS motors I have not. (solid motor mounts) Ran my 8.6:1 5.3 motor in the 10.5ish range. Leaner picked up no MPH so I left it. Start rich and lean it out until you stop seeing gains. As long as your in the e85 "window" there is no right or wrong AFR IMO. Same goes with timing.
Not saying your knock readings at those levels were false, just that it may not apply to every motor under the sun. Ideal squish/quench plays a big roll in the "rich knock" department I'd guess.
Not saying your knock readings at those levels were false, just that it may not apply to every motor under the sun. Ideal squish/quench plays a big roll in the "rich knock" department I'd guess.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 09-12-2014 at 10:40 AM.
09-12-2014, 12:50 PM
#53
Explain to the contrary than smart guy.
@ForceFed -
4G63 Motor and LSX motors both. Rich knock is very different from lean knock. It is steady and low vs. sharp spikes of lean / too much timing knock. Too rich any type of fuel lifts rings. There is ZERO reason in my view to be richer than 11:2.1 on any E85 motor unless, maybe, IAT's are a big problem. Even then, not so sure.
How sensitive are your knock sensor settings on these super rich ls motors you speak of? Or do you even have knock sensors installed? Not incriminating it's just something i have seen with LS crowd is that knock on E85 is not monitored nearly as close as it is with the import crowd.
@ForceFed -
4G63 Motor and LSX motors both. Rich knock is very different from lean knock. It is steady and low vs. sharp spikes of lean / too much timing knock. Too rich any type of fuel lifts rings. There is ZERO reason in my view to be richer than 11:2.1 on any E85 motor unless, maybe, IAT's are a big problem. Even then, not so sure.
How sensitive are your knock sensor settings on these super rich ls motors you speak of? Or do you even have knock sensors installed? Not incriminating it's just something i have seen with LS crowd is that knock on E85 is not monitored nearly as close as it is with the import crowd.
09-12-2014, 01:14 PM
#54
Explain to the contrary than smart guy.
@ForceFed -
4G63 Motor and LSX motors both. Rich knock is very different from lean knock. It is steady and low vs. sharp spikes of lean / too much timing knock. Too rich any type of fuel lifts rings. There is ZERO reason in my view to be richer than 11:2.1 on any E85 motor unless, maybe, IAT's are a big problem. Even then, not so sure.
How sensitive are your knock sensor settings on these super rich ls motors you speak of? Or do you even have knock sensors installed? Not incriminating it's just something i have seen with LS crowd is that knock on E85 is not monitored nearly as close as it is with the import crowd.
@ForceFed -
4G63 Motor and LSX motors both. Rich knock is very different from lean knock. It is steady and low vs. sharp spikes of lean / too much timing knock. Too rich any type of fuel lifts rings. There is ZERO reason in my view to be richer than 11:2.1 on any E85 motor unless, maybe, IAT's are a big problem. Even then, not so sure.
How sensitive are your knock sensor settings on these super rich ls motors you speak of? Or do you even have knock sensors installed? Not incriminating it's just something i have seen with LS crowd is that knock on E85 is not monitored nearly as close as it is with the import crowd.
Oh yeah and stop comparing the LS motors to a pentroof headed motor as there are obvious differences in timing and fueling.
Last edited by NicD; 09-12-2014 at 01:27 PM.
09-12-2014, 01:27 PM
#55
@ForceFed -
4G63 Motor and LSX motors both. Rich knock is very different from lean knock. It is steady and low vs. sharp spikes of lean / too much timing knock. Too rich any type of fuel lifts rings. There is ZERO reason in my view to be richer than 11:2.1 on any E85 motor unless, maybe, IAT's are a big problem. Even then, not so sure.
How sensitive are your knock sensor settings on these super rich ls motors you speak of? Or do you even have knock sensors installed? Not incriminating it's just something i have seen with LS crowd is that knock on E85 is not monitored nearly as close as it is with the import crowd.
4G63 Motor and LSX motors both. Rich knock is very different from lean knock. It is steady and low vs. sharp spikes of lean / too much timing knock. Too rich any type of fuel lifts rings. There is ZERO reason in my view to be richer than 11:2.1 on any E85 motor unless, maybe, IAT's are a big problem. Even then, not so sure.
How sensitive are your knock sensor settings on these super rich ls motors you speak of? Or do you even have knock sensors installed? Not incriminating it's just something i have seen with LS crowd is that knock on E85 is not monitored nearly as close as it is with the import crowd.
09-12-2014, 01:36 PM
#56
i have pumped 10.80 air fuels on e85 through many motors at 10deg timing
when i shoot for 18deg of timing i blowtorch the cyl head off just like this
obviously yours excaped to the water jacket because you are 6 bolt
when i shoot for 18deg of timing i blowtorch the cyl head off just like this
obviously yours excaped to the water jacket because you are 6 bolt
09-12-2014, 01:48 PM
#58
Explain what, that E85 doesn't just start knocking below 11.2? What an absurd generalized statement with no merit what so ever. I have watched on my own cars let alone thousands of others that didn't lose power nor knock running below 11.2 on E85 over the last 8 years that I've been tuning and working with that fuel.
Oh yeah and stop comparing the LS motors to a pentroof headed motor as there are obvious differences in timing and fueling.
Oh yeah and stop comparing the LS motors to a pentroof headed motor as there are obvious differences in timing and fueling.
I suppose to make you happy I should have the disclaimer of every motor is different, thought that would be assumed. Keep running them rich then I suppose. If it works for you awesome. It's your journey man.
Some big boys need security blankets I guess to sleep at night even though it doesn't do ****. Name one good effect of running an LS motor at 10.5 vs 11.5 on E85 please assuming the motor is intercooled.
09-12-2014, 01:48 PM
#59
But seriously, Ive blown up a bunch of **** learning to tune. This motor (OP's motor) would still be alive if it had like 5-7* less timing. I've gone lean, some would say WAY lean, and didn't melt anything. 12.8-12.9 for the last 2-3 seconds of a pass (on E85) and then drove the car 75 miles home after going 9.96@139. 18-19psi and 11*.
I don't know why so many are in a rush to throw kitchen sinks full of timing at motors. Baby soft tunes, no melted parts. Pretty simple. I'm sure someone will point out my lack of experience, or something else, yada yada.
Denmah just tuned a car that went 8.5s at 160 on PUMP GAS with one meth nozzle. 18-19psi and 11* (guess where I copied my timing table from a year or so ago, and guess when I stopped blowing **** up).
OP, timing kills parts WAY more often than anything else.
Again, this is just my amateur opinion.
I don't know why so many are in a rush to throw kitchen sinks full of timing at motors. Baby soft tunes, no melted parts. Pretty simple. I'm sure someone will point out my lack of experience, or something else, yada yada.
Denmah just tuned a car that went 8.5s at 160 on PUMP GAS with one meth nozzle. 18-19psi and 11* (guess where I copied my timing table from a year or so ago, and guess when I stopped blowing **** up).
OP, timing kills parts WAY more often than anything else.
Again, this is just my amateur opinion.
09-12-2014, 01:56 PM
#60
I suppose to make you happy I should have the disclaimer of every motor is different, thought that would be assumed. Keep running them rich then I suppose. If it works for you awesome. It's your journey man.
Some big boys need security blankets I guess to sleep at night even though it doesn't do ****. Name one good effect of running an LS motor at 10.5 vs 11.5 on E85 please assuming the motor is intercooled.
Some big boys need security blankets I guess to sleep at night even though it doesn't do ****. Name one good effect of running an LS motor at 10.5 vs 11.5 on E85 please assuming the motor is intercooled.
I don't run my motors at 10.5 a/f so I can't answer your question but I just found your richer than 11.2 automatically causes knocking statement funny. I'm curious, how many E85 LS motors have you tuned that immediately started knocking running less an 11.2 a/f?