Best budget build?
12-22-2014, 09:02 AM
#1
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Best budget build? I am wanting to build a boosted lsx datsun in a couple years and I am not familiar with the LS based motors. I am a mustang enthusiast so this is all foreign to me. I am looking for a little guidance on the best way to hit the 700-800 rwhp neighborhood without tearing into the bottom end. I was thinking 4.8 or 5.3? And what options are there for heads and cam using say a 76mm turbo? Keep in mind this will be a budget build... Any advice would be great, thanks.
12-22-2014, 09:17 AM
#2
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There is a bone stock (stock cam and valve springs as well) 4.8 making 800+ to the wheels.
I would get a stock 4.8 or 5.3, whichever you can find the cheapest and most complete. Stock heads, mild cam and valve springs. Get a decent turbo. Something like the On3 76mm is cheap and will get you 600 to the wheels if pushed, but I would skip the cheap options if you want 800whp on a single and get a Borg Warner billet 76mm or even a cast 80. T4 housing.
Denmah made 720 to the wheels on a stock 5.3 with a small 212/212 cam and a billet S476 at 17 PSI on pump gas though a power hungry 4L80e. I think he pushed it closer to 800 to the wheels at the track when he pushed the boost up a few more lbs. That just shows you how a very simple and budget combo can make big numbers.
One thing to remember, the newer Gen 4 4.8/5.3s are a lot stronger and most have better flowing heads. They only problem is, they are usually more expensive and some have AFM or VVT to deal with. The gen 4 rods/pistons will go right into a gen 3 motor without making any changes, but it might not be necessary for 800whp on a 4.8 (even the gen 3 4.8s are extremely stout, there are a few here that have made 1000whp).
I would get a stock 4.8 or 5.3, whichever you can find the cheapest and most complete. Stock heads, mild cam and valve springs. Get a decent turbo. Something like the On3 76mm is cheap and will get you 600 to the wheels if pushed, but I would skip the cheap options if you want 800whp on a single and get a Borg Warner billet 76mm or even a cast 80. T4 housing.
Denmah made 720 to the wheels on a stock 5.3 with a small 212/212 cam and a billet S476 at 17 PSI on pump gas though a power hungry 4L80e. I think he pushed it closer to 800 to the wheels at the track when he pushed the boost up a few more lbs. That just shows you how a very simple and budget combo can make big numbers.
One thing to remember, the newer Gen 4 4.8/5.3s are a lot stronger and most have better flowing heads. They only problem is, they are usually more expensive and some have AFM or VVT to deal with. The gen 4 rods/pistons will go right into a gen 3 motor without making any changes, but it might not be necessary for 800whp on a 4.8 (even the gen 3 4.8s are extremely stout, there are a few here that have made 1000whp).
12-22-2014, 12:36 PM
#4
Probably. Plenty have been in the power range you're looking to achieve with either the 4.8 or 5.3. If you have the money, I'd looking into upgrading the cam. There are several off the shelf turbo cams out there, or you could opt to have a vendor custom spec one for you. There is month's worth of reading you can do on here regarding going FI. Check out what other's combos have consisted of, check out their dyno numbers and track times, and go from there.
12-22-2014, 01:01 PM
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Best advice is to read this forum, search terms like "4.8 turbo / 5.3 turbo" and look at the stickied info contained at the top of the Forced Induction section.
The guys on this forum are years ahead of first time turbo guys like me when it comes to turbo LSX knowledge so thankfully, they share their knowledge. Everything from fueling info, vacuum connections, truck manifold kit building, etc can be found on here.
The guys on this forum are years ahead of first time turbo guys like me when it comes to turbo LSX knowledge so thankfully, they share their knowledge. Everything from fueling info, vacuum connections, truck manifold kit building, etc can be found on here.
12-22-2014, 08:20 PM
#6
This is all true. However, tons of these questions are asked every week. Any question that can be answered with a simple search will probably not be answered. Some of these guys are wizards and I totally understand why they get tired of the same questions that have probably been asked on the next page
12-24-2014, 12:07 PM
#7
I am wanting to build a boosted lsx datsun in a couple years and I am not familiar with the LS based motors. I am a mustang enthusiast so this is all foreign to me. I am looking for a little guidance on the best way to hit the 700-800 rwhp neighborhood without tearing into the bottom end. I was thinking 4.8 or 5.3? And what options are there for heads and cam using say a 76mm turbo? Keep in mind this will be a budget build... Any advice would be great, thanks.
Do you have a quarter mile goal? Or is this a “Street car”? 800whp is a pretty healthy amount. I wouldn’t be comfortable pushing a gen3 5.3 at those levels. If you really want that much power, spend the extra money on a gen4 engine. 2005+ 4.8 will be the cheapest. Mine was $600. I don’t believe any of the 4.8’s have the AFM/VVT. An LS1 used cam would be the cheapest route. They are a healthy upgrade from a truck cam and people give them away. Buy head studs and a good MLS head gasket. Then leave the motor alone.
Spend the majority of your budget on the ECU, fuel system, turbo system, and drivetrain. E85 is your friend. S400 BW turbos are your best bet for those power levels with a reliable brand name turbo IMO. $650 shipped for the basic S475. There’s a lot more to a turbo than it’s compressor minor diameter. All “76mm” turbos will not perform the same.
Search around, I’d guess my rx-7 is a similar weight to most 240’s. Ran A $220 Gen3 JY 5.3 S475 setup. Went low 9’s all year. Well over 100 passes and many street miles. End of the year it dipped in the 8’s and I blew the engine shortly after. A lot of folks throw around these huge 900-1000whp numbers. You don’t’ need to make that kind of power to put up good numbers in a light weight car. I think you’d be money ahead limiting it to 600ish and dialing the car in. Sneak up on the boost after, chances are you’ll find the limit quick. You’ll surprise a lot of people in a well dialed in sub 3000lb car with a true 600WHP.
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12-25-2014, 09:50 PM
#10
Turbodaves had them a little cheaper but don't appear to be in business anymore... I paid $640 shipped there.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 12-25-2014 at 10:59 PM.
12-30-2014, 09:20 AM
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Ok so I have done a bit more research. I have looked at the BW s475 turbos and I found 649 for the 1.32 AR and 699 for the 1.10, I am leaning towards a t56 tranny, so does anyone know how the 1.10 AR does with a manual tranny setup? Is it laggy or spool pretty quick with a mild 5.3? And it looks like from what I've read that ported 5.3 heads should do just fine. And what is a good cheap cam? I think somebody mentioned an ls1 cam previously, I also know of my buddy who had a turbo 5.3 fox that used an ls6 cam out of a z06, and that seemed to do pretty well. Any input on any of this???
12-30-2014, 09:53 AM
#14
Tons of input on all your questions if you look around a bit. They are very common.
You seem to be “wanting it all”. Mild “budget” engine, 800hp, fast spooling, etc… It’s just not gonna happen.
To make 7-800hp on a mild 5.3/4.8 you’ll need a largeish turbo and a lot of boost. That means spool times aren’t going to be instant. Manual trans makes it even worse. The large 96mm exh. wheel S475 with 1.32 T6 will be a lag monster on a mild 5.3/4.8, esp with a manual trans. Unless your flat shifting with an ignition box, you’ll have to build boost again with every gear change. I’d suggest the smaller 83/74 exh wheel in the 1.10 T4 housing if your looking for quick spool. There is nothing budget about an 800hp manual transmission, I’d suggest auto all the way, a powerglide at your weight would be the best bet.
Whats your definition of “a cheap cam”? The LS6 cam, intake, heads are treated like gold these days. Used parts are selling for exorbitant prices. If you manage to find an LS6 cam/intake/heads for a good price jump on it. It’s not likely though. As said LS1 would be the cheapest upgrade form the OEM 5.3 cam. Can usually pick them up for $25 or under. Vendor cams are usually $390ish.
You seem to be “wanting it all”. Mild “budget” engine, 800hp, fast spooling, etc… It’s just not gonna happen.
To make 7-800hp on a mild 5.3/4.8 you’ll need a largeish turbo and a lot of boost. That means spool times aren’t going to be instant. Manual trans makes it even worse. The large 96mm exh. wheel S475 with 1.32 T6 will be a lag monster on a mild 5.3/4.8, esp with a manual trans. Unless your flat shifting with an ignition box, you’ll have to build boost again with every gear change. I’d suggest the smaller 83/74 exh wheel in the 1.10 T4 housing if your looking for quick spool. There is nothing budget about an 800hp manual transmission, I’d suggest auto all the way, a powerglide at your weight would be the best bet.
Whats your definition of “a cheap cam”? The LS6 cam, intake, heads are treated like gold these days. Used parts are selling for exorbitant prices. If you manage to find an LS6 cam/intake/heads for a good price jump on it. It’s not likely though. As said LS1 would be the cheapest upgrade form the OEM 5.3 cam. Can usually pick them up for $25 or under. Vendor cams are usually $390ish.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 12-30-2014 at 10:00 AM.
12-30-2014, 01:52 PM
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Ok so maybe I need to let go of the idea of a manual tranny 😔 I don't know if I'd want to go the powerglide route though, maybe TH350/400 or 4L80E? And I'm not looking to make 700-800 daily driving this thing, 600-650 for daily driving I would be completely happy with
12-30-2014, 02:10 PM
#16
4L80E require some sort of controller, are physically huge, and heavy. Also looking at big money if you want a trans. brake
12-30-2014, 02:20 PM
#17
most complete engine for the money, and usually a used th400 with converter and dipstick and microsquirt engine management with 80lb injectors and a 400 walbro pump
stock truck intake, rails, exhaust manifolds, and ebay turbo 220-400 dollars will ge tyou 500-700 to the ground, and that is enough for 140mph trap speeds in commonly 3300~ lb average street cars, pretty wild on street tires you can get em lit and skate all over past 100mph and **** on 99% of the cars on the road even pedaling and billowing smoke out the back end.
stock truck intake, rails, exhaust manifolds, and ebay turbo 220-400 dollars will ge tyou 500-700 to the ground, and that is enough for 140mph trap speeds in commonly 3300~ lb average street cars, pretty wild on street tires you can get em lit and skate all over past 100mph and **** on 99% of the cars on the road even pedaling and billowing smoke out the back end.
12-31-2014, 09:22 AM
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most complete engine for the money, and usually a used th400 with converter and dipstick and microsquirt engine management with 80lb injectors and a 400 walbro pump
stock truck intake, rails, exhaust manifolds, and ebay turbo 220-400 dollars will ge tyou 500-700 to the ground, and that is enough for 140mph trap speeds in commonly 3300~ lb average street cars, pretty wild on street tires you can get em lit and skate all over past 100mph and **** on 99% of the cars on the road even pedaling and billowing smoke out the back end.
stock truck intake, rails, exhaust manifolds, and ebay turbo 220-400 dollars will ge tyou 500-700 to the ground, and that is enough for 140mph trap speeds in commonly 3300~ lb average street cars, pretty wild on street tires you can get em lit and skate all over past 100mph and **** on 99% of the cars on the road even pedaling and billowing smoke out the back end.
12-31-2014, 02:56 PM
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