2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

I have a forged LSA 418 built for boost that I was going to put an eforce supercharger on.

The Car is an 1986 Monte Carlo SS

That was until I saw the Magnuson Heartbeat, then I started to lean towards this set-up for a few reasons:

The intercooler set-up, The use of OEM LS9 rails, the location of the cooler lines and the air flow claims.

However, after looking into this further, it appears to me, that this set-up is not yet geared to those that want to break out of the late model application specific realm and into the aftermarket swap realm.

Examples:

Limited pulley options tailored around conservative boost for late model application.

No universal package options.

No break for universal application orders.

Difficult support on universal options since there is no universal "kit" (lid swap for height limitations/considerations, inlet swap for air flow considerations, etc.)

Please someone chime in as I am honestly looking for solid feedback on why I am wrong and I would love to have my mind set right but honestly I cant see spending an extra 2,000+ as the benefits don't seem to outweigh the cost.


Positive feedback is greatly appreciated and no, I am not interested in going to a Centrifugal supercharger.

Regards,

Matt

O.N.

Superchargers online sell the ztec grip pulleys is various sizes down to a 2.85 or 2.3" i believe and your LSA lower pulley also works with the system so you can spin it up to about 17-18psi if you want to.

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

Thanks O.N. for responding..

One issue with that suggestion, and please forgive me for leaving out this very important detail, is that with my swap I need to stick with the corvette belt offset to keep things tight and in check with my swap.

With this in mind, I was told that the only pulley option is a 3.350 and while I am aware of aftermarket pulley options, this particular pulley limitation I was told is due to the physical casting and interference that would result for this offset/application.

If I am wrong or misinformed then I will happily stand corrected.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Regards,

Matt

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

More Info to my inquiry:

So that I could add air up top, I was initially looking at concept one per the image below, but their set-up will hit my steering gear box. As such was not an option...



As such I found this set-up below and, like concept one, they are using the corvette water pump/offset. However, I REALLY LIKE that they separate the belts, have better wrap on the SC pulley along with an overdrive crank pulley. The best part is that it DOES fit my application and probably many other tight situations where interference and the desire for air are priorities.



Thanks again for any input or guidance.

Regards,

Matt

DavidBoren

What, exactly, is wrong with the eforce? If the heartbeat is presenting all these problems, then you should probably just get the eforce.

Is there a whipple charger for your application? Mmm, 3.3L Whipple charger...

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

Greetings David,

Nothing really is a problem per se, the allure of more HP with same boost, along with the other points I liked about this platform is why I am presenting these questions.

As it stands, for the Eforce set-up along with the complete end to end accessories you see pictured at the bottom image I posted, I am looking at $8,400 and that's with the black anodized finish. For the Heartbeat, that price would cover just the supercharger package because they have no aftermarket considerations.

At this point I am about 90% of the way towards getting the Eforce and calling it a day unless someone chimes in with a compelling reason in the form of serious and clear answers to ALL my concerns/questions.

O.N. and all interested in this discussion, I emailed superchargers on line with the question regarding the aftermarket pulley for the application I need. I Will respond when I get an answer.

Thanks and regards,

Matt

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

Ok Folks, Just to recap and make clear my goals so nothing gets lost in translation from the start of this inquiry to this point.

I have a new 418 LSA, boost ready engine going into my 1986 monte carlo SS

The goals are the following:

1. Add a roots style supercharger that fits under the hood
2 Have it mate with a pulley system that allows for the air compressor to be mounted high, so as to not force frame modification when mounted low.
3. Have room for more expansion/boost if desired in the future.

My initial research lead me to the Edelbrock Eforce but I then had to stop and take a good look at what Magnuson put out in the way of the heartbeat for the following reasons.

1. The improved air inlet/flow characteristics
2. Improved intercooler which translates to more power with equal boost comparatively to other TVS superchargers.
3. I like the front positioning of the coolant inlet/outlet, stock fuel rails.

With that said, What had caused me to pause and ask the question that is the thread subject was the fact that many engine swaps require considerations for not only hood clearance but also side to side and forward clearance. So, for this discussion, that limits the choice of the required Heartbeat to the corvette/Camaro belt offset. As such, this presented the following problem that to date I have confirmed is limited by the casting in terms of size of pulley and effectively capping the amount of boost I could produce with this corvette/Camaro offset/platform, and limiting, if If I so desired, to increase boost/power in the future.

And Yes I have also factored in the balancer overdrive max that I am already getting which is also limited by space to a 12% overdrive.

Last, was the fact that there were no currently available universal options for the Hearbeat which effectively adds 2,000 dollars to the price tag.

So now to the last good update: To make this decision even more interesting, magnuson has come back with a very decent offer for a universal order to fit my application.

With that said, I now have some final decision making to do and after a few more items to clear up on the overall fitment on my side, I will decide this week.

Thanks again to all for your feedback,

Regards,

Matt

DavidBoren

I do like the heartbeat's inlet and intercooler setup, as compared to the eforce. And if you found a way to have it fit your application, that is awesome.

Are you just going to get the heartbeat/overdrive balancer and call it good?

I know it's not cheap or easy, but if you are maxed out on blower boost with whatever pulley configuration fits, and you still want more... You can always raise compression with new pistons for more power.

transam69230

iTrader: (49)

Have you thought about going turbo? Easily will fit under your hood without issues.

DavidBoren

Gotta love it when a thread has two clearly stated options, and someone chooses to muddy the waters with an irrelevant option #3.

I get that it's just a question, but the thread is not asking if he should purchase a blower or a turbo. The entire thread is which of these two specific blowers should he buy.

And given that he said he is a week away from ordering one of those two blowers, I think it's a little late to suddenly research and buy a proper turbo setup.

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

Ok, I made my final decision and I ordered the Edelbrock Eforce today with the Wegner Black Anodized pulley set-up you see in the image I posted previously. Yeah, I know the image shows a heartbeat, but the pulleys and accessory arrangements are similar enough to get the gist.

It would have been cool to go with the Heartbeat but there were a few more factors I confirmed today when I ordered:

1. The heartbeat application for my swap would require more space in the throttle body area, thus moving items downward and not allow for the integrated P/S reservoir. Yes, I know its a small detail but a detail I considered, regarding not having to find a location for a remote one, none the less.

2. The height of the Edelbrock is low enough that I could still do an engine bay brace and not have it interfere.

3. Last there is a several week lead time for the Heartbeat kit vs. an in stock and ready to deliver Edelbrock Eforce. This makes a big difference as I am fighting the clock with getting this engine together and tuned before it goes on mothballs for the winter.

Below is a link to a dyno Wegner did with a similar platform.

Enjoy!

DavidBoren

Is 817hp going to be enough for your application? Lol.

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

Until I get bored or kill myself, it will do for now.

I have a couple pulleys coming with this kit, another benefit of this route, to play around with.

Seriously though, a better question would be can my car, as it stands, handle the power? Then of course next is can I get it effectively to the ground?

Since I am in Illinois, Chuck at FLT hooked me up with their level 6 4L65E.



I have the Currie Ultimate 9 with the HD third member and lots of other supporting control arm and sway bar goodies.



Working on fuel delivery at the moment..






Cheers!

DavidBoren

All the arbitrary "stages" and "levels" companies use make me smile. None of it makes sense unless one item being upgraded is stage/level one, two items being stage/level two, and so on.

The exact same upgrades that make that 4L65 a "level 6" from that company, may just be another company's "stage 3"... It's silly.

I'm not ******* on your transmission, even though I personally don't think it will survive, no matter how many stages or levels it may be. Just making an observation of this rating system companies use to hype up their products.

At least with head porting, stage two GENERALLY means that the valves have increased in diameter over stock.

I don't know how that applies to anything else, though.

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

Really? This may drive you crazy.. But this is business 101 stuff...

If you want to remain in business...Marketing plays a large role in any good or service sold.. And they ALL do it..

I understand your point But I think you may have mistaken my posting of the "Level Six" to the likes of some giddy housewife that bought 3,000 worth of stage 6 shoes because they were "On sale"

For my application, for what I intend to do, I have done my research, the same as for every other item, down to every nut and bolt purchased for the car.

In short, I got what I paid for and and it will be just fine for what I intend to do with it...

DavidBoren

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying that you fell for a marketing gimmick, sir. I don't doubt that it was an educated decision. I just haven't had much faith in the 4L60/65's until literally just today I read about the performabuilt level two, and even further, their black label (?) level three. Those things are pretty legit. I have not looked into your level six transmission, but if it's anything like the performabuilt, I'm sure you will be fine.

HILROD

I'm not sure how I missed this. My Monte has a Magnusen with full truck accy drive. Even AC. No frame mods. Probably to late to help you though. LOL.

2Aspire

iTrader: (4)

No worries.. Its all about context. Thus when I participate in half-duplex communication I try to establish the context first, then present it in an innocuous manner with as much detail as possible. But tend to miss items when quick to respond or when I am tired.

No question the 4L65E is a weaker trans.. If I were to be going 100% hard core straight-line with drag radials, no question that it would be a gamble. Some might even debate that now as many are producing pretty decent power and still going strong but I am not here to defend that debate one way or the other.

For me it would be a mix of road-course, daily driving with some occasional 1/4 mile runs. As such, I should be fine. From what I looked at the Performa was more on the questionable side in terms of weeding out items including HP claims and hard parts in their levels and understanding what they really translate to by application in terms of gain for cost. Many I saw go with them because there is no core charge and the warranty terms. But to each his own..

No worries Hilrod, I am pretty sure your set-up would not have worked as I recall yours was based on the Kwik performance Short compressor that I already verified would not work as I am using John Bzdels mounts that use the stock LS clam shells that would not allow this to fit in that low location. As I recall I think you are also not using a heartbeat as well? This was important for the discussion as well since hood clearance and belt offset limited the Heartbeat choice I was looking at..

If I am wrong then Show me your Heartbeat!!! LOL.

Regards,

Matt

No