Fuel delivery ideas/thoughts
11-01-2015, 08:25 PM
#1
Fuel delivery ideas/thoughts I have been running dual 044's on E85 for a while with two -8's T-ing into a -10 feed and -8 return. Well I just scrapped the 44's and bought two magnafuel 4303's. The plan is to run one of them all the time and and stage the second one around 10-15lbs of boost.
Problem is I just finished the routing with all new PTFE hose and aluminum line. I would hate to do it all over again.
My main question is this: I know -10 is plenty of line for 1000whp but will it be to small for 1000/1100 on corn? The way I figure it is this. Once the second one kicks on the engine will be consuming plenty of fuel and that would keep the back pressure down..
Second question: anyone think mounting the pre filters right to the pump is a **** idea? Doing it this way will save me tons of money and headache as my available space is non existent. I measured the in and outlet of the 4303's and they are 1/2" (-10) I have hogged out some fittings to make sure that is consistent and the pumps are mounted low/level with sump fittings.
Problem is I just finished the routing with all new PTFE hose and aluminum line. I would hate to do it all over again.
My main question is this: I know -10 is plenty of line for 1000whp but will it be to small for 1000/1100 on corn? The way I figure it is this. Once the second one kicks on the engine will be consuming plenty of fuel and that would keep the back pressure down..
Second question: anyone think mounting the pre filters right to the pump is a **** idea? Doing it this way will save me tons of money and headache as my available space is non existent. I measured the in and outlet of the 4303's and they are 1/2" (-10) I have hogged out some fittings to make sure that is consistent and the pumps are mounted low/level with sump fittings.
11-02-2015, 12:00 PM
#2
Do you have check valves for the outlets?
What is the micron rating? I wouldn’t run anything smaller than -10 ORB and nothing finer than 150 microns. You won’t be leaning on the pumps near as hard with 2 of them. So you’ll prob be fine. Just log fuel pressure and go slow.
I had problems with flow/pressure drop running w/ a 120micron pre-filter. (also only used -8ORB feed/filter). I personally haven’t run a pre-filter since day 1. I bought it used and it’s been running that way 4 years. Sent it in last year just for peace of mind and they said it looked like it had been cavitating with my -8 supply and the brushes were a little worn. The gears were “in great shape” so running without a pre filter is always an option. Magnafuel suggested -12ORB ID feed when pushing the pump to limits. They also thought a 16v boost-a-pump would easily make 1000whp on e85 at moderate pressures (below 70). Also said the pump could handle 24v bursts. Could always keep one pump as a spare and use a voltage booster to simplify things.
Also make sure your vent is the same diameter or larger than the feed. (With a filter)
What is the micron rating? I wouldn’t run anything smaller than -10 ORB and nothing finer than 150 microns. You won’t be leaning on the pumps near as hard with 2 of them. So you’ll prob be fine. Just log fuel pressure and go slow.
I had problems with flow/pressure drop running w/ a 120micron pre-filter. (also only used -8ORB feed/filter). I personally haven’t run a pre-filter since day 1. I bought it used and it’s been running that way 4 years. Sent it in last year just for peace of mind and they said it looked like it had been cavitating with my -8 supply and the brushes were a little worn. The gears were “in great shape” so running without a pre filter is always an option. Magnafuel suggested -12ORB ID feed when pushing the pump to limits. They also thought a 16v boost-a-pump would easily make 1000whp on e85 at moderate pressures (below 70). Also said the pump could handle 24v bursts. Could always keep one pump as a spare and use a voltage booster to simplify things.
Also make sure your vent is the same diameter or larger than the feed. (With a filter)
11-02-2015, 12:14 PM
#3
Pre filter is 75micron. I'm totally fine with removing the prefilter I honestly dont think it's that important. Problem I have so far is the -8 coming out of the cell.. I can find a 90* with an -8 on one end and a -10 on the other. A simple 1/2" drill bit fixes the ID size. I'll tell you this I would LOVE to keep it single pump.. It would make my life X100 times easier and I could just plumb the two -8's into a single -10 and be done with it. Honestly I hear such shitty things about the boost a pumps but the idea really interests me as I would love to not have to deal with pump #2
11-02-2015, 01:21 PM
#4
Pre filter is 75micron. I'm totally fine with removing the prefilter I honestly dont think it's that important. Problem I have so far is the -8 coming out of the cell.. I can find a 90* with an -8 on one end and a -10 on the other. A simple 1/2" drill bit fixes the ID size. I'll tell you this I would LOVE to keep it single pump.. It would make my life X100 times easier and I could just plumb the two -8's into a single -10 and be done with it. Honestly I hear such shitty things about the boost a pumps but the idea really interests me as I would love to not have to deal with pump #2
I wouldn't want 75 micron pre-pump.
I hear ya on the boost-a-pump. They are $300 for the 40A 20v box. A sealed, heat sinked 10a 12-24v step up converter is $15 shipped. I'd think you could buy 6 of these for a $100 bucks and have a 60A 24v monster. Then run a relay and a boost switch to activate it. Could also throw in another light weight battery and set it up on a relay and boost switch wired in series for 24v.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Waterpro...QAAOSwA4dWLaNS
I capped the 2 -8 outlets on the cell and drilled a hole in the bottom of the sump with a -12ORB bulkhead fitting with teflon washer. Don't think I took new pics with the -12. This is the old -8 feed.
11-02-2015, 07:13 PM
#6
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Isealed, heat sinked 10a 12-24v step up converter is $15 shipped. I'd think you could buy 6 of these for a $100 bucks and have a 60A 24v monster. Then run a relay and a boost switch to activate it. Could also throw in another light weight battery and set it up on a relay and boost switch wired in series for 24v.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Waterpro...QAAOSwA4dWLaNS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Waterpro...QAAOSwA4dWLaNS
11-02-2015, 07:47 PM
#7
If you supply the voltage and wattage it'll run the pump. But no, I don't know how "good" the converters in the link are. If you set it up on a boost switch it wouldn't be active for more than a few seconds at a time though. I can't imagine it wouldn't work well.
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11-02-2015, 08:32 PM
#8
Originally Posted by Forcefed86
I wouldn't want 75 micron pre-pump.
I hear ya on the boost-a-pump. They are $300 for the 40A 20v box. A sealed, heat sinked 10a 12-24v step up converter is $15 shipped. I'd think you could buy 6 of these for a $100 bucks and have a 60A 24v monster. Then run a relay and a boost switch to activate it. Could also throw in another light weight battery and set it up on a relay and boost switch wired in series for 24v.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Waterpro...QAAOSwA4dWLaNS
I capped the 2 -8 outlets on the cell and drilled a hole in the bottom of the sump with a -12ORB bulkhead fitting with teflon washer. Don't think I took new pics with the -12. This is the old -8 feed.
I hear ya on the boost-a-pump. They are $300 for the 40A 20v box. A sealed, heat sinked 10a 12-24v step up converter is $15 shipped. I'd think you could buy 6 of these for a $100 bucks and have a 60A 24v monster. Then run a relay and a boost switch to activate it. Could also throw in another light weight battery and set it up on a relay and boost switch wired in series for 24v.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Waterpro...QAAOSwA4dWLaNS
I capped the 2 -8 outlets on the cell and drilled a hole in the bottom of the sump with a -12ORB bulkhead fitting with teflon washer. Don't think I took new pics with the -12. This is the old -8 feed.
still pricey though I'm not gonna lie
11-02-2015, 09:10 PM
#11
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FWIW, I ran a 4303 in my last car and it was happy to run all the time. Even when caught in traffic for a couple hours trying to get back to the Omni from Henessey at TX2k13.
That car dyno'd at ~900whp on E98. Either the pump or the 4xID2000s were done at that point.
That car dyno'd at ~900whp on E98. Either the pump or the 4xID2000s were done at that point.
11-02-2015, 10:47 PM
#12
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-10 is a huge feed. I'm running stock 3/8, 5/16 lines and stock fuel filter. Having pumps capable of pushing through is the key, and with 2 4303s you should be perfect in that regard. The -10 feed only helps as well and shouldn't be an issue at 1k.
11-03-2015, 02:06 AM
#13
Not sure the 150 micron pre pump element would be the best idea. The 75 micron set will flow plenty, especially using two pumps.
Also, in your first pic, the pump/filter combo on the bottom is using the 25 micron filter. Just thought you should know.
Mounting the filters to the pump should be fine.
Also, in your first pic, the pump/filter combo on the bottom is using the 25 micron filter. Just thought you should know.
Mounting the filters to the pump should be fine.
11-03-2015, 06:41 AM
#14
Originally Posted by Blown06
Not sure the 150 micron pre pump element would be the best idea. The 75 micron set will flow plenty, especially using two pumps.
Also, in your first pic, the pump/filter combo on the bottom is using the 25 micron filter. Just thought you should know.
Mounting the filters to the pump should be fine.
Also, in your first pic, the pump/filter combo on the bottom is using the 25 micron filter. Just thought you should know.
Mounting the filters to the pump should be fine.
I know this is probably pushing it to but what about mounting the post filter in the same fashion?
11-03-2015, 07:33 AM
#15
Not sure the 150 micron pre pump element would be the best idea. The 75 micron set will flow plenty, especially using two pumps.
Also, in your first pic, the pump/filter combo on the bottom is using the 25 micron filter. Just thought you should know.
Mounting the filters to the pump should be fine.
Also, in your first pic, the pump/filter combo on the bottom is using the 25 micron filter. Just thought you should know.
Mounting the filters to the pump should be fine.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 11-03-2015 at 07:41 AM.
11-04-2015, 01:11 AM
#16
Where are you getting your information form? I'm going off what the tech at magnafuel told me and personal experience with this specific pump and e85. The area of the filter is more important than the micron rating. You can make a 60 micron filter flow plenty if it's large enough. I tried a 60 micron fitter the same diameter as above initially and the pump would loose pressure fast at sub 500hp levels on e85. Removed it and it's been great ever since. Magnafuel guy suggested I use their large 150 micron filter pre-pump in my application.
I'm going off of seeing how much **** is caught in the post filters when running high micron filters and not wanting that **** going through the pump. Magnafuels recommendation is fine, but totally unwarranted in this situation with two pumps.
11-04-2015, 01:13 AM
#17
I grabbed the two elements with the -12 fittings in them and went to town. They are the pre filters or at least that's what they say anyways. I looked inside one and saw a dead June bug so I'll need to pull them apart regardless.
I know this is probably pushing it to but what about mounting the post filter in the same fashion?
I know this is probably pushing it to but what about mounting the post filter in the same fashion?
11-04-2015, 01:26 AM
#19
Where are you getting your information form? I'm going off what the tech at magnafuel told me and personal experience with this specific pump and e85. The area of the filter is more important than the micron rating. You can make a 60 micron filter flow plenty if it's large enough. I tried a 60 micron fitter the same diameter as above initially and the pump would loose pressure fast at sub 500hp levels on e85. Removed it and it's been great ever since. Magnafuel guy suggested I use their large 150 micron filter pre-pump in my application.