E85 or 93+meth is the question? any advice
09-23-2016, 08:50 AM
#1
E85 or 93+meth is the question? any advice Currently building a stock 05+ 6.0/317 heads studded with tick stage 2 turbo cam and Turbonetics T7875. T56/9in in a 99 Trans Am
Fuel system consists of:
80lb injectors
dual 255lph walbros
stock lines, fpr, and rail
Building the car to have fun with mainly a street car taking it to the drag strip maybe 2-3 times a year.
Id like to try for 650-700rwhp
If I run 93 the meth would be a 50% mix of water/meth. The meth nozzle I purchased was CM12 (approx 1100-1200 CC/M )from cooling mist.
Nearest e85 gas station is 20 miles away one direction. I'll keep a fuel container in the car if i were to travel far. I cant currently afford to upgrade the fuel system right now, but it is on the agenda down the road.
Which fuel would you use in my situation?
Fuel system consists of:
80lb injectors
dual 255lph walbros
stock lines, fpr, and rail
Building the car to have fun with mainly a street car taking it to the drag strip maybe 2-3 times a year.
Id like to try for 650-700rwhp
If I run 93 the meth would be a 50% mix of water/meth. The meth nozzle I purchased was CM12 (approx 1100-1200 CC/M )from cooling mist.
Nearest e85 gas station is 20 miles away one direction. I'll keep a fuel container in the car if i were to travel far. I cant currently afford to upgrade the fuel system right now, but it is on the agenda down the road.
Which fuel would you use in my situation?
Last edited by GoodSpeed150; 09-23-2016 at 09:01 AM.
09-23-2016, 09:26 AM
#4
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The fact that the nearest E85 station is 20 miles away, and your current fuel system is not enough for E85, is enough reason alone IMO. And since they will both accomplish your goal rather easily it seems like a no brainer IMO. That's just my opinion
09-23-2016, 08:54 PM
#6
If you decide on meth injection, you would likely be far better off with 100% meth. Unless your IAT's are completely out of control, the water mix will cause a significant bog when the injection kicks in. I have an old dyno graph where a 50/50 mix caused an almost 80ft/lb bog, and another graph on the same vehicle where 100% meth just looked like a small hiccup on the graph when it kicked in. Granted, this was a big nozzle supplementing a poor fuel system, but that gives an idea of the difference.
09-24-2016, 01:38 AM
#7
OP is this is a daily ditch the e85 idea. thats a lot of miles to get gas. youll burn fuel about 30% more already plus depending on your driving habbits and commute you could be filling up every acouple of days.
not to mention 40mi and time wasted to get gas...
I have a two e85 station 3 minutes from me and after a year of e85 i gave it up. I couldnt take random travel without having to double check if theres a e85 station there. 1/4 tank is your new reserve tank because now you cant just stop anywhere you have to make sure you have enough gas to make it to e85 station.
You have to always plan ahead. theres a couple of times where i was running late already but had to stop and fill up bc i was 1/4 tank. if i was on 91 i would have just gotten gas after my commute to work.
your last sentence is the reason why you experience a bog. I would not recommend running 100% and loose out the cooling capacity. at that power level and boost doubt he really needs the extra boost in octain more than cooling.
Size your nozzle properly and make sure its automatizing properly by
1. using high pressure pump
2.if going "big" nozzle do so by splitting them. example if you want to run 20 gph use two 10.
I dynoed last week at 600whp at 17psi. 50/50 with 14gph nozzle. no bog that you speak off. IAT is in check and no knock. power kicks on hard and actually helps a lot in spool time on those summer heat.
not to mention 40mi and time wasted to get gas...
I have a two e85 station 3 minutes from me and after a year of e85 i gave it up. I couldnt take random travel without having to double check if theres a e85 station there. 1/4 tank is your new reserve tank because now you cant just stop anywhere you have to make sure you have enough gas to make it to e85 station.
You have to always plan ahead. theres a couple of times where i was running late already but had to stop and fill up bc i was 1/4 tank. if i was on 91 i would have just gotten gas after my commute to work.
If you decide on meth injection, you would likely be far better off with 100% meth. Unless your IAT's are completely out of control, the water mix will cause a significant bog when the injection kicks in. I have an old dyno graph where a 50/50 mix caused an almost 80ft/lb bog, and another graph on the same vehicle where 100% meth just looked like a small hiccup on the graph when it kicked in. Granted, this was a big nozzle supplementing a poor fuel system, but that gives an idea of the difference.
Size your nozzle properly and make sure its automatizing properly by
1. using high pressure pump
2.if going "big" nozzle do so by splitting them. example if you want to run 20 gph use two 10.
I dynoed last week at 600whp at 17psi. 50/50 with 14gph nozzle. no bog that you speak off. IAT is in check and no knock. power kicks on hard and actually helps a lot in spool time on those summer heat.
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09-24-2016, 02:00 AM
#9
theres methanol online calculator. imo it would put you on the heavy side. so I always test them and see if i can use lower.
Progressive is always cool but IMO not needed unless your spraying alot.
09-24-2016, 02:18 AM
#10
This^^^. Plus with E85.....you WILL run through a tank much faster than gas.
09-29-2016, 07:25 PM
#12
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they should make about the same power, just e85 runs cooler because its mostly alcohol/ethanol. Honestly since I live in Wisconsin e85 is literally freaken everywhere so I don't mind running it, and its cheaper than 93 here so it evens out cost wise tbh. There is also a 112 octane pump like 3 minutes from my house..might just do that.
09-29-2016, 07:43 PM
#13
Go get a 55 gallon drum and fill it up.. Keep the drum in your garage on a few 2X4 to prevent it from sweating. Keep it sealed and bam you have E85 on tap whenever you want it. Worked for me.. The drum would sit for 3 months sometimes with no issues.
09-29-2016, 07:44 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Prowler
What I would like to know which one will u get more power with? 93 spraying 100% meth or e85?
09-30-2016, 05:07 AM
#15
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If you decide on meth injection, you would likely be far better off with 100% meth. Unless your IAT's are completely out of control, the water mix will cause a significant bog when the injection kicks in. I have an old dyno graph where a 50/50 mix caused an almost 80ft/lb bog, and another graph on the same vehicle where 100% meth just looked like a small hiccup on the graph when it kicked in. Granted, this was a big nozzle supplementing a poor fuel system, but that gives an idea of the difference.
The more water you inject relative to meth, the more flow needs controlled better, whereas any idiot can dump a load of meth in with no real ill effects. But that isnt a fault of using water...it's the fault of whoever is setting it up.
As to what achieves the best overall results for each user is down to them to test and find out. Although pretty sure most pumps claim they are not happy with 100% meth, even if most people run them with it. And even the pumps that claim they can...are the same as the ones who say they cant.
Although for only 700, pump+meth is perfectly fine.
09-30-2016, 07:11 PM
#18
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09-30-2016, 08:56 PM
#20
It will only cause a bog if you're doing it all wrong.
The more water you inject relative to meth, the more flow needs controlled better, whereas any idiot can dump a load of meth in with no real ill effects. But that isnt a fault of using water...it's the fault of whoever is setting it up.
As to what achieves the best overall results for each user is down to them to test and find out. Although pretty sure most pumps claim they are not happy with 100% meth, even if most people run them with it. And even the pumps that claim they can...are the same as the ones who say they cant.
Although for only 700, pump+meth is perfectly fine.
The more water you inject relative to meth, the more flow needs controlled better, whereas any idiot can dump a load of meth in with no real ill effects. But that isnt a fault of using water...it's the fault of whoever is setting it up.
As to what achieves the best overall results for each user is down to them to test and find out. Although pretty sure most pumps claim they are not happy with 100% meth, even if most people run them with it. And even the pumps that claim they can...are the same as the ones who say they cant.
Although for only 700, pump+meth is perfectly fine.