FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

So I picked up a BASE 01 C5 (Black) and being that I have a dedicated drag car that sees little street time, I wanted a dedicated street car that sees little track time. Makes sense...

Goal is around 7-750ish to the tire and still have it daily "driveable" with little, to no issues. Similar to what factory production cars are trying to accomplish with their HIGH HP cars off the Dealer lots.

The base of the build is:

01 C5 BASE

Engine: "370ci"<--I say 370" but it's basically a stock 6.0 lol
Fresh Iron 6.0 (King bearings)
GEN IV LS Rods
.030" over Pistons
MLS Head Gaskets (3 Layer .051" Comp. Thickness)
Stock 799 heads
BTR .650" Dual Springs with Titanium retainers
Stock Rockers with trunion upgrade
BTR Stage 2 Cam (Cam was installed before FI was a thought)
BTR Chromoly Pushrods 5/16"x7.400
LS7 lifters
JP Single roller billet timing set with torrington bearing
HRI Oil pump
LS6 Intake
Stock Throttlebody
Tr6 plugs
3Bar SD
Trick flow "stock size" crank pulley

Fuel: (93 Octane)
FIC 95lb Injectors
Racetronix 680lph twin pump kit
Stock feed line
Stock regulator
Stock rails

Dual pump HW Kit, with hobbs switch activation second 340lph pump. METH kit from a friend.

BEWST:
A&A Black'd out kit from TPSMak
V3 TI
3.4 A&A 6-Rib pulley
Shooting for 12lbs

Exhaust:
KOOK's 1 7/8" LT's
KOOK's 3x2.5" X-pipe
Corsa Pace OTA Exhaust

Transmission:
02 Zo6 Torque tube and 6spd Trans
Monster Stage 2 Clutch (18lb billet FW)
Tick Adjustable MC w/Speed bleeder

Rear:
RPM LVL 3 Diff. w/ Oil cooler
3.73 Gears

Car made 403rwhp/400rwtq in NA form @ Shortuning. Tuned by James Short. He has a Dyno Dynamics dyno. Which isn't bad for a little more cubes and a cam. I haven't seen the tune. I have no question James put in some solid work on the tune. Car runs as smooth as they do from the factory, just sounds so much more bad ***.

Which brings me to my next thought. Some things I've been thinking of since I'll be tuning it myself as I do with all my vehicles using HP Tuners (Possibly renting the dyno @ShorTuning if schedules permit) and have a couple questions on are... Are people using the Spark correction advance vs IAT and PE vs IAT multipliers in the factory ECM's to control the added enrichment of the meth and capability of more timing? It seems like the most logical thing to do and keep it safe and reliable when the meth tank is empty. Allowing the tune not to be dependent on the meth and able to control its own fueling, even though you may come down on power a little. Just some things I haven't been able to test myself yet and wondering what's out there.

I plan to keep this thread up to date and post some pictures of the progress once I can begin to start the build. Parts have already been bought and are arriving, just waiting on time to turn the wrenches. Currently in Washington, Car is in Kentucky (Where I'm from). Home is where the Navy sends you. Lol Currently if it's not in the blazing hell of the Middle East it's in the freezing temps of the PACNORWEST.

Detoxx03

iTrader: (14)

With the TI headunit it can make that. Seen plenty make around 800 or more. I see you didn't mention anything about a meth kit. I would definitely look into a dual nozzle alky control kit to help with cooling and any additional fuel needs you may have.

Monte4ever

iTrader: (2)

Or run E85.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

60s and the 255 won't be enough for 700+. The 60s are good to 700 with enough fuel pressure behind them. But you'll need a secondary fuel pump to get there. Look at the kits from ECS to get additional fueling.

An Alkycontrol kit would help a lot.

Otherwise, I think the rest looks okay. I'd maybe consider an ATI Supercharger damper vs a stock damper.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Wouldn't belt slip start to be a problem at that boost/power level with a 6 rib setup?

Realcanuk

Looks like a nice build but I would consider some small changes.
Go 8 rib to avoid belt slip issues.
Bigger injectors and pump as mentioned already.
Consider meth, Alky Control would be my choice.
Go with LS9 head gaskets.

As far as meth tuning is involved, most use the IAT to pull timing if it goes up due to lack of meth. On top of that you can keep it a tiny bit on the rich side with the meth, so that if it fails or you run out, it wont be lean enough to hurt anything.

Detoxx03

iTrader: (14)

E85 is a great option if it's available in your area.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Wish I had E85.

You do need a lot more pump and injector though with E85. But you can run a lot of timing and compression with boost.

I also second the LS9 gaskets.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Thought about it, the way I plan to run this fuel setup basically on stock lines, regulator, and rails. I don't think I will have enough pump flow.

I have updated the initial thread to include SD tube vs MAF and fuel system update.

The ATI dampner is on my Trans Am, not looking to spend that kind of money on an overdrive or stock pulley on what I would consider a mild build. The system is 6 rib, so an ATI pulley I would consider overkill.

Haven't really heard issues with belt slip at this power level. Pulley size has great feedback from what I hear, as well as the A&A bracket system supplied.

As mentioned above, haven't heard much on belt slippage. Definitely not putting new head gaskets on this thing, Lol I've seen too many people get away with more power, on junk, with much less. For me to be over cautious and waste time and money, might as well go forged motor yada yada. It has multi layer gaskets and ARP hardware. At this level I would venture to say it's going to be fine.

It is readily available, although I've never tested. Still considering...
Lol... You guys ever heard of what Denmah does on stock head gaskets.

Realcanuk

Seen what Denmah does and respect it for what it is. If you like fixing things all the time go that route.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Hmm... Maybe I'm missing something. Can you show me where the "head gasket" has been their culprit for failure.

That's my point. You recommend head gaskets, and I'm all for suggestions, hence the original post. But you're basically saying if I don't run LS9 head gaskets, I'm going to be "fixing things all the time". I've been in the game long enough to know, "I'm" not going to have issues on 12lbs with some MLS head gaskets. Maybe "I'm" lucky...

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

The better question is why wouldn't you run LS9 gaskets? Just because somethings been done a certain way for a long time doesn't mean something better can't come along, and that something is the LS9 gaskets. Nobody looking to make reliable power anymore thats boosted uses anything BUT LS9 gaskets. The Gen 1 small block was great until the LS1 came along, does that mean nobody should take advance of the new technology because "they've been doing this long enough"?

Realcanuk

You posted up your build and choices of part, obviously to get feedback.

My comment about fixing things all the time, was not referring specifically to the head gaskets. You had said mls gaskets, stock damper, 6 rib, and insufficient fuel system, so I was seeing a trend.

I originally assumed the engine wasn't together yet and at that point it would be silly not to go with LS9 gaskets. If its already together than I understand not wanting to swap them out, although I still think its a bad choice. LS9 are just proven to hold better... but whatever.

People are telling you 8 rib would be better to avoid slip, but you have already made your decisions. If I'm not mistaken, you have changed your choices on damper and fuel system from the original post, which is what we were commenting on.

I just believe in doing things right, as I don't like fixing my car every week. Those "sloppy" builds are fun to see, but like I said......... those guys are always fixing things. You see the glory dyno pulls, but if you believe a junkyard pullout engine is holding 1000 rwhp for any period of time..... well......the tooth fairy is coming soon.

Good luck with your build. It should be a fun ride.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Why wouldn't I? lol I've been saying this, it's unnecessary.

Im not the, just because everyone else does it, I have to as well kind of guy.

Sorry you're not making commission of some Ls9 gaskets today. Lol

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Yea the engine is already together. I posted the numbers it made in NA form. If it didn't require replacing x, y, and z. I would consider it.

Once again, just like the head gaskets, if we're trying to avoid things, why not make it fully forged setup for boost? Avoiding the 6 rib from slipping when there's no proof it will slip, is unnecessary.

If you're trying to convince me that it can't hold power for a period of time. Then clearly you don't know me. My Trans Am in my signature is called Borrowed Time. I'm realistic in the fact that stock components are only good for so long, but it hasn't failed me yet. It's a very stout combo and continues to prove people wrong on every occasion. I've even surprised the hell out of myself.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

How do you know its unnecessary? Did you do any research or just a quick Google? It has ZERO to do with everyone else using it. Theres a significant design difference between an LS9 and MLS gasket, but I forgot you know it all and dont need input. Why bother making the thread. Way to be ignorant.

Monte4ever

iTrader: (2)

Lol.....can we all just get along lol.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

If it's together, just run the MLS gasket. I'm in the same boat as my motor is running now and adding a supercharger is easier than tearing everything out and starting over for a turbo. However, I recognize I will probably have some issues with a Cometic MLS gasket. So I may just say screw it and forge the motor and go the turbo route eventually. The other option there is the Cometic MLX gasket... which is a multiple layer gasket with an integrated stopper layer to act sort of like a poor man's o-ring.

But the LS9 is a better gasket than stock GM. Why? Well, it's a 7-layer gasket. The GM MLS is... 3 layers. It doesn't seal as well. The LS9 allows for some movement of the inner layers to catch the flame front and seal it in the combustion chamber. The 3-layer doesn't provide that. At low enough boost say 7-8lbs it probably doesn't matter. However, with enough boost you can start to push water. How much is hard to say. But if you decide to push it down the road, soften the head chambers, run studs (or even 1/2"), and use a thicker deck/more rigid casting head.

FEAR LS

iTrader: (8)

Lol... I run LS9 gaskets on my Trans Am. I understand their benefit. I am just saying at this point and time, for this particular build, it's not a necessity.

"If" I have problems with the current gaskets, I will post the issue, and prepare to be roasted.

JakeFusion

iTrader: (7)

Good deal.

I think you can get by with it. The 6-rib I'm more skeptical of. I thought the A&A brackets were 8-rib?