How far can I take E70 fuel?
02-12-2017, 03:27 PM
#1
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How far can I take E70 fuel? Switching to "E85" this year. I've got a tankful of E70 winter blend in the car now though.
How far have you guys taken your cars on E70? I wanted to get my car to the dyno soon to start the tuning process.
Also, I previously had meth injection on the car. Should I bother using it with the E85? I'd prefer to run a water/meth mix instead of straight meth because quite frankly I do not like having a tank and lines of straight methanol in the passenger compartment with me. I do have an A2A intercooler on the car. Right now Ive got two nozzles totalling 24GPH and am considering leaving only one a 10GPH and injecting 50/50 water meth.
Thoughts?
I'm running a billet 80mm, LJMS stage 2 cam, L33 short and will be going for 800rwhp through a th400....
How far have you guys taken your cars on E70? I wanted to get my car to the dyno soon to start the tuning process.
Also, I previously had meth injection on the car. Should I bother using it with the E85? I'd prefer to run a water/meth mix instead of straight meth because quite frankly I do not like having a tank and lines of straight methanol in the passenger compartment with me. I do have an A2A intercooler on the car. Right now Ive got two nozzles totalling 24GPH and am considering leaving only one a 10GPH and injecting 50/50 water meth.
Thoughts?
I'm running a billet 80mm, LJMS stage 2 cam, L33 short and will be going for 800rwhp through a th400....
Last edited by dean85gt; 02-12-2017 at 04:01 PM.
02-12-2017, 03:31 PM
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This is the timing map Im starting with. Its basically my pump gas tuneup with an extra degree. I'm planning on sneaking up on the timing and would like to be running 18-20psi
Last edited by dean85gt; 02-12-2017 at 03:37 PM.
02-12-2017, 08:00 PM
#6
Dean, I think you'll be surprised at how close E85 and E50 are, let alone E70. Google the delphi study on ethanol fuels and check it out. The octane rating and knock resistance between E85 an E50 are very very close. That beig said, as log as you keep an eye on things i think you could make damn near as much as you did/do on E85. The octane and knock resistance is around .1-.2 difference.
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02-13-2017, 01:00 PM
#11
Originally Posted by FEAR LS
As far as you can take e85. e50-e85 all the same thing. I posted my base e70 timing table. Works great, spools great, not one single issue.
This. I laugh every time i hear people bitching about anything over E-70 and sub 85. It's the same ****. Also ditch the meth you don't need it and that timing map is super conservative. I'm not a fan of throwing timing at a motor to make power but your timing map looks like it belongs with a 93 octane tune.
02-13-2017, 01:54 PM
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This. I laugh every time i hear people bitching about anything over E-70 and sub 85. It's the same ****. Also ditch the meth you don't need it and that timing map is super conservative. I'm not a fan of throwing timing at a motor to make power but your timing map looks like it belongs with a 93 octane tune.
That tune is conservative, I was trying to be gentle on GEN III stuff.
02-13-2017, 02:41 PM
#13
Originally Posted by FEAR LS
To the OP, I would keep the meth kit, wouldn't hurt anything IMO.
That tune is conservative, I was trying to be gentle on GEN III stuff.
That tune is conservative, I was trying to be gentle on GEN III stuff.
02-13-2017, 03:44 PM
#14
Don't ever take someone else's timing suggestions to heart. The only right answer is to start low like you are doing and read the plugs. Settle on a boost number and then slowly add timing reading the plugs until the engine stops making power. I've had that number be as low as 11* and as high at 44*. Every setup will vary.
As far as the water/meth goes...
Water provides benefits in combustion you don't get with straight E85. It also makes for a cooler combustion chamber easily seen by reading the plugs with the alky on/off. Personally I'd do just as you were thinking and cut the amount injected in half. Also the -20* washer fluid would work fine at 30% meth or so. All you really need with E85. I run 7gph worth of nozzle at 300psi. 2gph pre-turbo and 5gph at the TB. That's on pump "E85" with an IC.
As far as the water/meth goes...
Water provides benefits in combustion you don't get with straight E85. It also makes for a cooler combustion chamber easily seen by reading the plugs with the alky on/off. Personally I'd do just as you were thinking and cut the amount injected in half. Also the -20* washer fluid would work fine at 30% meth or so. All you really need with E85. I run 7gph worth of nozzle at 300psi. 2gph pre-turbo and 5gph at the TB. That's on pump "E85" with an IC.
02-13-2017, 03:59 PM
#15
30% more fuel in the cylinder running ethanol adds all the additional cooling benefits most people need. It's a street car not a dedicated race car. Ethanol, A good tune and a decent cooler work for the 1300+ HP street cars we run with so again I just don't think it's necessary for street racing with the OP's mentioned go fast parts. My .02 anyways
Last edited by oscs; 02-13-2017 at 04:38 PM.
02-13-2017, 04:40 PM
#16
I hear ya, but I still don't see a reason not to run it when it's already installed. Not saying it's needed for knock control. Also lesser blends won't have 30% additional fuel in the CC so they don't cool it as much.
I like it on my street setups because it adds a lot cushion to the tune. It also keeps the CC clean and has many other small side benefits. You can also spray a little pre-turbo for additional density gains and wet compression benefits. Might not be a noticeable gain, but it will make slightly more power if done correctly and be easier on the engine as a whole. Less EGT, less heat absorbed by the cyl walls, more exh mass, etc etc... There's a whole laundry list of crap water does in the CC. None of them are bad as long as your ign system can handle it.
I like it on my street setups because it adds a lot cushion to the tune. It also keeps the CC clean and has many other small side benefits. You can also spray a little pre-turbo for additional density gains and wet compression benefits. Might not be a noticeable gain, but it will make slightly more power if done correctly and be easier on the engine as a whole. Less EGT, less heat absorbed by the cyl walls, more exh mass, etc etc... There's a whole laundry list of crap water does in the CC. None of them are bad as long as your ign system can handle it.
02-13-2017, 04:46 PM
#17
Originally Posted by oscs
30% more fuel in the cylinder running ethanol adds all the additional cooling benefits most people need. It's a street car not a dedicated race car. Ethanol, A good tune and a decent cooler work for the 1300+ HP street cars we run with so again I just don't think it's necessary for street racing with the OP's mentioned go fast parts. My .02 anyways
Originally Posted by Forcefed86
I hear ya, but I still don't see a reason not to run it when it's already installed. Not saying it's needed for knock control. Also lesser blends won't have 30% additional fuel in the CC so they don't cool it as much.
I like it on my street setups because it adds a lot cushion to the tune. It also keeps the CC clean and has many other small side benefits. You can also spray a little pre-turbo for additional density gains and wet compression benefits. Might not be a noticeable gain, but it will make slightly more power if done correctly and be easier on the engine as a whole. Less EGT, less heat absorbed by the cyl walls, more exh mass, etc etc... There's a whole laundry list of crap water does in the CC. None of them are bad as long as your ign system can handle it.
I like it on my street setups because it adds a lot cushion to the tune. It also keeps the CC clean and has many other small side benefits. You can also spray a little pre-turbo for additional density gains and wet compression benefits. Might not be a noticeable gain, but it will make slightly more power if done correctly and be easier on the engine as a whole. Less EGT, less heat absorbed by the cyl walls, more exh mass, etc etc... There's a whole laundry list of crap water does in the CC. None of them are bad as long as your ign system can handle it.
02-13-2017, 05:07 PM
#20
For the record 26lbs on a small cam 5.3 long block. S476 and 14* was fine for many many passes. Bumped it to 17* without reading plugs and torched the head/deck the third pass. Intercooled E85 setup. With water/meth. IAT in the 160's. Again what someone else runs makes little to no difference.
Also seen base timing off as much as 2*... so a commanded 18* might be 20* on your setup and 16* on someone else's. Plugs won't lie start low and work your way up...
Also seen base timing off as much as 2*... so a commanded 18* might be 20* on your setup and 16* on someone else's. Plugs won't lie start low and work your way up...
Last edited by Forcefed86; 02-13-2017 at 05:12 PM.