stevieturbo

Given most normal air temp sensors will be very inaccurate ( or non linear to put it a better way ) at higher temps, this may not reveal as much as you'd like given the post cooler temps.

Hence the thermocouples would be better. But yes they'd cost more and not much sense throwing more money when you know it doesnt work.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

Im very interested in how this works out. As previously stated, i was strongly considering this set up as a very expensive alternative to my a2a set up thats causing me grief on my streetcar build. This set up aint cheap, id hate to convert to a2w n findout its going backwards. I too am running an s484 t6 set up on a built ls2/243 swapped nova

Has no one else with a similiar set up chimed in with real world results? Id assume 417 motorsports did some testing...and more than just "theoretical" before selling such an expensive product

Ratical

iTrader: (82)

It seems to me if the OP melts 20 pounds of ice in a single pull then the cooler must be doing it's job. The heat is transferring somewhere.

I vote towards incorrect temp data.

gtistile

In your scenario, what would cause 2 different sensors(GM and then Holley), both to read incorrectly, but also exactly the same as one another? The output readings are never sporatic, and I have confirmed they both read correct at ambient, as well as compared there temps by heating the sensor with a heat gun while referencing a thermometer with the Holley outputs. They match up

Ratical

iTrader: (82)

Not sure what could be causing the high readings but something is melting the ice. I agree with Stevie in that once you have a pre-reading and an aft reading to compare you can see the true relation between the 2. I am very interested to see what your pre-temp readings are. There could be an underlying issue that you do not yet know about?

gsteele

I started to read your first link and the third paragraph is this:

"Higher coolant flow will ALWAYS result in higher heat transfer. Coolant cannot absorb heat after it reaches it's pressure corrected vapor point. Furthermore, coolant absorbs heat at a progressively slower rate as it approaches this point."

There did not seem to be a reason to continue.

gsteele

Just to put a fine point on it, this was listed under the heading of misconceptions and we are not talking about coolant temps at it's corrected vapor point.

sbcgenII

iTrader: (1)

The intercooler is just a heat sink. The hot air goes through the intercooler, the intercooler absorbs the heat, then the water removes heat from the intercooler. If the heat sink isn't big enough it won't be able to absorb all the heat and you have melted ice and high IATs.

rkupon1

iTrader: (3)

"Advanced Cooling System Basics
​​Common Misconceptions
Coolant temperatures are not an accurate indicator of metal temperatures. The coolant's maximum temperature is it's pressure corrected vapor point. The metal can be several hundred degrees hotter than the adjacent coolant.
Temperatures of critical areas must be determined by checking the metal at a controlled distance from the combustion chamber surface. This eliminates discrepancies caused by the variances in metal thicknesses.
Higher coolant flow will ALWAYS result in higher heat transfer. Coolant cannot absorb heat after it reaches it's pressure corrected vapor point. Furthermore, coolant absorbs heat at a progressively slower rate as it approaches this point"

Didn't know if you noticed it was under mis conceptions or not, lol but yea, I gotchya. Again, I doubt its truly an issue or near these limits if they even exist. I was just pointing out how a newbie could learn something like this reading the same ol interwebs and google functions you do. Its a confusing world out there on the internet. So when I see contradictions, I tend to question as to why. The difference is honestly some guys are too impatient with others like me and forgot they once knew nothing of the subject either. Now that everyone is an expert, its easy to comment/interject so quickly as if its a matter of fact. No biggie, I'm over it and would rather learn what the real issue is at hand. Carry on, and sorry for the

super6ute

Thanks for the reply. Sounds like you've blown my theory out the window.

Atomic

iTrader: (37)

As a test case, see how long it takes to melt 20 lbs of ice (or whatever) just sitting at an idle. This would be best with datalogging thermocouples, or even a basic water thermostat will work. Basically 3 cases: Idle, light cruise, and 1/4 mile runs.

The ice is absorbing heat from somewhere as stated, but I bet most of that heat its getting from the engine through the intake (it is metal after all) when what you really want to cool is the air.

stevieturbo

Even at idle, due to heat soak, I'd say it could melt pretty fast.

Forcefed86

iTrader: (4)

So we know the sensor is reading correctly, that doesn’t mean it’s an accurate representation of the actual charge temps though. That reversion theory sounds plausible? If hot air is puking back up the runners it may make the sensors read hotter than they should. Doesn’t mean the sensor is wrong… Which the OP has proven. It would also explain why the temps were almost identical with or without water flow?

If the OP were over running the core, it would perform well at low boost/power/CFM levels I’d think? What is the lowest you have tested boost wise? There may not be a location on that particular setup that you can correctly monitor a true charge temp.

Have you made a pass at say 15lbs with no water flow and no timing retard? Then checking the hottest plug? Then make another pass at 15lbs with water and check the plug. (no timing retard). And looked at MPH differences? (or dyno output?)

On my car at least I can clearly tell a difference in the ground strap when my water/meth inj is off. You'd think it woudl be obvious on an A2W setup as well?

Thanks for doing all the testing/research for us! You’d think 417 would be trying to help out more and appreciating your data. Maybe providing you with another core to try.

Good luck!

gtistile

I'm still relatively new to this but I just can't see air being able to travel all the way back on that long runner and affecting the sensor while at WOT with boost getting shoved down the pipes.

I have never made any track passes with the pump off as I've been hunting personal bests every single pass and icing it down with the idea that even if it does SOMETHING that's better than nothing. I will have to give this a try on low boost.

I'm glad there are guys out there who understand and appreciate the data and effort that I've put in to this.

Despite my best attempts to make it very clear that I have only done this to be as accurate and scientific as possible with the intention of getting HELP, 417 and their distributors have seemingly taken this data as a direct attack and have gone as far as to say publicly that my only reasoning for collecting and posting data is to PROVE to the internet that the intercooler doesn't work... I'm absolutely baffled as my intention was never such, and only to get my cooler working right. I built my whole hotside and coldside based on this intercooler. The entire build used this cooler as the centerpiece. Everything was quite literally built to accommodate the cooler as I liked it that much. I have no ill will, I just want my setup running correctly.

I have far better things to do with my time and money than **** it in to the wind to show people something negative on the internet in a negative light. No one in the right mind would ever do that

gsteele

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have always wondered about this type of intercooler since reading about silver 82 and what he ended up doing. This is his build thread: https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...grenade-5.html

My understanding was that he worked/works for lingenfelter and that he was using one of their top mounted intercoolers similar in design to yours. You can see what his conclusion was in post #82.

I wonder why the ones that Whipple use seem to work.

3 window

iTrader: (1)

Seems like awful lot of BS for an intercooler that you pay that much for!

SethU

Reversion is a condition that's prominent at idle and wouldn't occur in conditions indicated in your data logs.

Personally. I don't see it being a factor.

I am, however, curious to see what the pre-intercooler temps are. That will be very interesting.

Project GatTagO

iTrader: (7)

Have you considered the Lingenfelter intake with the cooler built in. There is a guy on the 5th get Camaro forum that is using it at over 1000hp...seems to work well.

Andrew

chuntington101

I think the op looked into one of the LPE intakes but not only are they about 2.5k there is also a long wait to get one!

I think the stock core has o be working just maybe not effectively. Couple of thoughts:

1) air you sure there is no air in the brick at all? The cooler must be the highest point on your setup so it's going to be easy for air to get trapped in the brick. Also if it's full of air the water won't be doing it's job even if it's flowing through. You effective have a large ally heat sink! Are there any bleed vales on the end tanks of the cooler so you can make sure all the air is out?

2) what is the water path through the cooler? If it's a straight in and out across the core maybe not all the core has water flowing through it! So only small sections are in contact with the cold water. Maybe try blocking off the exits and just using the inlets as a test?

Atomic

iTrader: (37)

Are you sure there isnt a rag stuffed into the water intake ports?