Why not to buy STS part 2
07-20-2005, 12:08 PM
#1
Why not to buy STS part 2 Well the first thread is now out of hand and I am sure if V6Birdy pokes his head in here this one will get Fed up as well.
Therefore V6 Bird please stay in another Thread. It would be a favir to us all.
We know your oponion and it ins't needed here.
Now for the question I think the origional thread starter was trying to ask.
Lets start off with a stock 346 and the bottom end is going to stay stock.
We have somewhere in the neighbor hood of 4500-5500 dollars to spend.
Looking at our options we have STS, Procharger, vortech, PhamSpeed and whatever other FI setup offered in a similar price range.
We want to keep 100% of the electronic's and AC. Want a Daily Driver.
With the price of the STS kit you can buy it (3899), have it installed(300-400 bucks), tuned(500), and still have money for injectors fuel pump and a FMIC.
When you go SUPERCHARGED you now get a 5000 dollar setup plus you get to buy headers, Y pipe, exhaust, install is 2x as much and still need a tune.
The PTK kit is 4800 bucks intercooled and comes minus the Turbo, so that is out of the question.
So in all reality the STS is priced damn well and works.
From T Byrne. http://www.tbyrnemotorsports.com/ls1...hargercat.html
So for the budget minded folks what is wrong with the STS kit?
Lets take it one more step.
lets say you mommy and daddy were gonna buy you a Turbo for your car but it had to be a basic kit and no more boost then what a stock shortblock LS1 can handle safely. (Mommy dosen't want the car to blow up) Any kit you want that is a normal production setup. You can upgrade the STS to a larger turbo, or you could buy a different kit all together. Budget is no consern but all the other golas are still inplace as far as Daily driver, AC etc.
A FMIC is okay, bigger injectors and fuel pump, plus a tune, but for now cam stays the same, and heads stay stock.
Now what direction do you go?
How much better are other FI setup's then the STS when you have the goals above as a MUST?
Debate #2.
Therefore V6 Bird please stay in another Thread. It would be a favir to us all.
We know your oponion and it ins't needed here.
Now for the question I think the origional thread starter was trying to ask.
Lets start off with a stock 346 and the bottom end is going to stay stock.
We have somewhere in the neighbor hood of 4500-5500 dollars to spend.
Looking at our options we have STS, Procharger, vortech, PhamSpeed and whatever other FI setup offered in a similar price range.
We want to keep 100% of the electronic's and AC. Want a Daily Driver.
With the price of the STS kit you can buy it (3899), have it installed(300-400 bucks), tuned(500), and still have money for injectors fuel pump and a FMIC.
When you go SUPERCHARGED you now get a 5000 dollar setup plus you get to buy headers, Y pipe, exhaust, install is 2x as much and still need a tune.
The PTK kit is 4800 bucks intercooled and comes minus the Turbo, so that is out of the question.
So in all reality the STS is priced damn well and works.
From T Byrne. http://www.tbyrnemotorsports.com/ls1...hargercat.html
So for the budget minded folks what is wrong with the STS kit?
Lets take it one more step.
lets say you mommy and daddy were gonna buy you a Turbo for your car but it had to be a basic kit and no more boost then what a stock shortblock LS1 can handle safely. (Mommy dosen't want the car to blow up) Any kit you want that is a normal production setup. You can upgrade the STS to a larger turbo, or you could buy a different kit all together. Budget is no consern but all the other golas are still inplace as far as Daily driver, AC etc.
A FMIC is okay, bigger injectors and fuel pump, plus a tune, but for now cam stays the same, and heads stay stock.
Now what direction do you go?
How much better are other FI setup's then the STS when you have the goals above as a MUST?
Debate #2.
Last edited by JZ'sTA; 07-20-2005 at 02:03 PM.
07-20-2005, 12:24 PM
#2
it was not so long ago when i was deciding on a turbo kit as well....I went with Phamspeed because i liked the fact of how simple it was,but with more ability to make big power in the future should i feel the need to upgrade.Like when i first got my kit,it was the basic kit with a T67.I was going to push 8-9#s on the stock SB with 6.0ltr heads....but i got to thinking.I ended up cutting a deal with HPE for a forged 383,and sent another company and getting a T76GTS to make big power with no worries of blowing stuff up.And im just going to sell the motor in my car now.You can only upgrade so far on a rear mount,whereas a front mount there are more options.If you happen to get real serious about your car what are you going to do,put a PT88 in the rear?And the new Phamspeed kit is complete down to nuts and bolts.I think its a better buy than the STS.Get that,some injectors,pump,other stuff and a tune and your set and can always make more power when your ready.Hope you see what im trying to bring out.Getting into FI there is alot to consider.
07-20-2005, 02:21 PM
#3
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the bottom line is that the kit "works" but is not nearly as efficent as the "traditional" turbo set ups. like i said in the last thread, the sts works fine, but not as well as the other- simple physics.
07-20-2005, 02:22 PM
#4
There is defentially a lot to consider.
I happen to agree with you on what you said and if I were planning on going bigger and making some serious power STS would not be my choice. When you plan on going bigger you also must plan on opening you zipper and pissing a way more than 10 G's.
I am not trying to debate going even with a forged motor or running more boost then what a stock Longblock can handle.
I thing we all know that the STS dosen't quite compair when you get real serious about racing.
In the first setup I listed above STS would be my choice as it is great for budget, makes 100RWHP and is easy to install.
(Acturally if I wanted 100HP I would probally buy a good set of heads, a nice cam, and some other bolton's) But if I wanted a FI setup that was simply and more affortable STS is a DAMN good option.
In the second setup with mommy and daddy buying it for me I am not sure which route I would go.
the STS would still be considered.
How much MORE power would a different turbo setup make on a stock longblock?
If the STS "can make" say 530 @ 9psi intercooled with the bigger turbo what would say the Phamspeed kit or PTK kit make with their turbo upgread but still on only 9psi?
I think that is a damn good question that could only be figured if we have some solid comparisions.
Sorry I was so long.
I happen to agree with you on what you said and if I were planning on going bigger and making some serious power STS would not be my choice. When you plan on going bigger you also must plan on opening you zipper and pissing a way more than 10 G's.
I am not trying to debate going even with a forged motor or running more boost then what a stock Longblock can handle.
I thing we all know that the STS dosen't quite compair when you get real serious about racing.
In the first setup I listed above STS would be my choice as it is great for budget, makes 100RWHP and is easy to install.
(Acturally if I wanted 100HP I would probally buy a good set of heads, a nice cam, and some other bolton's) But if I wanted a FI setup that was simply and more affortable STS is a DAMN good option.
In the second setup with mommy and daddy buying it for me I am not sure which route I would go.
the STS would still be considered.
How much MORE power would a different turbo setup make on a stock longblock?
If the STS "can make" say 530 @ 9psi intercooled with the bigger turbo what would say the Phamspeed kit or PTK kit make with their turbo upgread but still on only 9psi?
I think that is a damn good question that could only be figured if we have some solid comparisions.
Sorry I was so long.
07-20-2005, 02:24 PM
#5
bottom line its still a money issue then I would go with the STS kit. Nothing like spending everything you got $$$ and not having enough money to maintain, tune, and buy the unknows that come up (brokin parts....).
If money was no object it would be a matter of what you want. The STS would be the easier install. The front mount would be the way to go if you end up going crazy later on.
If money was no object it would be a matter of what you want. The STS would be the easier install. The front mount would be the way to go if you end up going crazy later on.
07-20-2005, 02:25 PM
#6
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If you can get in the ballpark on price with say the phamspeed then i would do that. But its just not as easy to install as the sts and i dont see how you can beat the price of the sts. Also you can get the sts cheaper then 3800...I sold a gt70 upgrade kit with fmic and all piping and hardware needed for 4200 and i paid about 5k for everything
07-20-2005, 02:27 PM
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the sts kit will probably be pretty close at those levels. the power would be slightly less and the spool time would be a bit longer, but peak numbers would be similar.
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07-20-2005, 02:29 PM
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on the front mount vs sts on stock motor debate...friends t76 front mount on 9si made 480ho 500tq with a 226 cam. Safe tune of course.
Friends sts fmic sts gt67 mafe 500 rwhp+ 500tq safe tune as well. However the front mount was peaking tq 800 or so rpms sooner. But the sts was still under 3800-4000 and was using a stock cam as well.
just some real world info.
The front mount car has gone 11.2 at 124....the sts car is totaled due to a rollover so the track times never came. It would have trapped the same but high 11's
Friends sts fmic sts gt67 mafe 500 rwhp+ 500tq safe tune as well. However the front mount was peaking tq 800 or so rpms sooner. But the sts was still under 3800-4000 and was using a stock cam as well.
just some real world info.
The front mount car has gone 11.2 at 124....the sts car is totaled due to a rollover so the track times never came. It would have trapped the same but high 11's
07-20-2005, 02:48 PM
#11
Originally Posted by hellbents10
You know if you put a STS system on a GEO Metro your turbo is as close the motor as on a f-body with the phamspeed kit.
But you would also be a *** for even posting something like this............****....
But you would also be a *** for even posting something like this............****....
HuuuuMMMMMMM
That was pretty funny.
Next thing you know we will have a lime green Metro sporting a STS.
07-20-2005, 02:53 PM
#12
Originally Posted by PurEvl
on the front mount vs sts on stock motor debate...friends t76 front mount on 9si made 480ho 500tq with a 226 cam. Safe tune of course.
Friends sts fmic sts gt67 mafe 500 rwhp+ 500tq safe tune as well. However the front mount was peaking tq 800 or so rpms sooner. But the sts was still under 3800-4000 and was using a stock cam as well.
just some real world info.
The front mount car has gone 11.2 at 124....the sts car is totaled due to a rollover so the track times never came. It would have trapped the same but high 11's
Friends sts fmic sts gt67 mafe 500 rwhp+ 500tq safe tune as well. However the front mount was peaking tq 800 or so rpms sooner. But the sts was still under 3800-4000 and was using a stock cam as well.
just some real world info.
The front mount car has gone 11.2 at 124....the sts car is totaled due to a rollover so the track times never came. It would have trapped the same but high 11's
Takes me to the next question.
Why would it run so much slower?
If you could get the car to 60ft in a compariable time to a typical turbo car then why would the track time suffer so much? I think this is where a very important converter choice is made in A4 cars. When you shift you HAVE to make sure you stay in a good RPM range for the turbo to work its best. Maybe a 300-400 higher stall converter would work better. Also you wouldn't want a 273 gear as that would just kill the RPM's and you would be down on power everywhere.
07-20-2005, 03:08 PM
#13
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the tq comes on sooner (spool) with the front mount...gets you out of the hole alot quicker...this is going by if you have a 6 speed.
Autos...they work just as well
Autos...they work just as well
07-20-2005, 03:15 PM
#14
Originally Posted by PurEvl
If you can get in the ballpark on price with say the phamspeed then i would do that. But its just not as easy to install as the sts and i dont see how you can beat the price of the sts. Also you can get the sts cheaper then 3800...I sold a gt70 upgrade kit with fmic and all piping and hardware needed for 4200 and i paid about 5k for everything
i personally think that its worth the extra couple hundreds bucks for the new Phamspeed kit considering its a full kit down to nuts and bolts and even piping back to the stock muffler.You still have to factor in heaers and piping and other stuff with the basic STS kit.And the Phamspeed comes with a larger Turbo too i believe.
Last edited by ddnspider; 07-20-2005 at 03:25 PM.
07-20-2005, 03:28 PM
#15
Originally Posted by ddnspider
Which is why im glad i got my Phamspeed kit w/ FMIC and T76GTS for $3500
i personally think that its worth the extra couple hundreds bucks for the new Phamspeed kit considering its a full kit down to nuts and bolts and even piping back to the stock muffler.You still have to factor in heaers and piping and other stuff with the basic STS kit.And the Phamspeed comes with a larger Turbo too i believe.
i personally think that its worth the extra couple hundreds bucks for the new Phamspeed kit considering its a full kit down to nuts and bolts and even piping back to the stock muffler.You still have to factor in heaers and piping and other stuff with the basic STS kit.And the Phamspeed comes with a larger Turbo too i believe.
Damn thats cheep.
Wanna get me one for that price plus maybe 200 dollars finders fee?
07-20-2005, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ddnspider
Which is why im glad i got my Phamspeed kit w/ FMIC and T76GTS for $3500
i personally think that its worth the extra couple hundreds bucks for the new Phamspeed kit considering its a full kit down to nuts and bolts and even piping back to the stock muffler.You still have to factor in heaers and piping and other stuff with the basic STS kit.And the Phamspeed comes with a larger Turbo too i believe.
i personally think that its worth the extra couple hundreds bucks for the new Phamspeed kit considering its a full kit down to nuts and bolts and even piping back to the stock muffler.You still have to factor in heaers and piping and other stuff with the basic STS kit.And the Phamspeed comes with a larger Turbo too i believe.
The STS kit does not need headers or any additional piping. It is a complete kit, even though there are a few upgrades that are available now (FMIC, larger turbo, etc...). I bolted my kit up and jack stands with hand tools in a weekend, mostly working alone. Now I don't know how the install goes for the Phamspeed kit, but I know the install of the STS is pretty easy, and that's part of the attraction.
07-20-2005, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LSONE
the bottom line is that the kit "works" but is not nearly as efficent as the "traditional" turbo set ups. like i said in the last thread, the sts works fine, but not as well as the other- simple physics.
07-20-2005, 04:12 PM
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Is anyone else here having oiling issues with their STS? There is a guy in my car club who posted this about his STS oiling setup....
The oiling method is definately novel. However, it seems that STS goes through great measures for you not to drill a hole in the oil pan. Hence, like NicD said, the oil return line goes through the cap. And that's where the problem starts. Sometimes at WOT, the pressure gets so high that it seeps through the oil cap and lands on the crank case. Not a big problem, really. Just becomes annoying to constanty clean it. Not to mention the bad smell.