Sledgehammer

Well...Since I have always liked to take the path least traveled...(Or as some of my friends say, I just like to )

I have decided to build for my next project a destroked 6.0 (328 ci.)...

Since I am still licking my financial wounds from a nasty divorce, this is going to have to be a low budget build (besides it's always fun to see what the stock stuff will take... )

It will be built using a stock 4.8 crank, 4.8 rods with ARP bolts, stock 6.0 pistons, ported 6.0 heads, ARP head and main studs, (possible homemade lower main girdle with crank scrapper just because I feel the need to build something and I have idea I want to explore...) undecided cam, Edelbrock Victor Jr. carb intake and a blow through carb set up with a T-76 turbo...

The weak links will be the stock pistons and the longer 4.8 rods...(In my searches I have not ben able to find out how much weaker if any, that they might be compared to the shorter rods...)

My thinking is that the bigger bore (helps unshroud the valves) along with a short stroke and smaller cubic inches will be a lot more efficient with a T-76 (or size there about) turbo vs the stock stroke/size 6.0...

This will all be going into a 2800# 89 mustang coupe with a t-400, 4200 stall, with 3.23 gears...I'm thinking real low 10's (Iwould love to build it to run in the 9's but the cost to upgrade the car is outside the current budget)

So...I am looking for constuctive comments/ideas on the project (no flame jobs please)

Figured it would make for some interesting brain food for some of the regulars on the board...

Some day when I get my piggy bank all healed up...I would like to build a good forged destroker like this with a really good set of heads/valvetrain and hit it with a ton of boost to just see how much you can get out of 330 ci. or so...

KraZy

iTrader: (4)

Awesome, I am glad to see someone going this route. I have given it a lot of thought as well....but I will probably stick with 347 or 370.

Keep us posted.

V8_DSM_V8again

I'd change out the rods and pistons.

You have to resize the big end of the rod with a rod bolt change..

By the time you do a bolt upgrade you are getting close enough cost wise to consider aftermarket rods.

Sledgehammer

Problem is there isn't any after market rods that are 6.275 long with a stock pin size that I can find...There are several that are 6.250 long but with .927 pin size so I would have use a different pistons as well...

As far as resizing the rods I have a buddy with a machine shop, so that cost is a non issue...

Like I said if there was a little more coin in my piggy bank I would go with the after market rod/piston combo...But for now it's going to have to be the stock stuff...(besides I like seeing just how much you can get out of the stock stuff...I have built 1800+ hp blown alcohol big blocks etc..but some of the funest stuff we have built is what we call junkyard motors...Some of it has made some crazy power and lasted a lot longer than I would have EVER dreamed...The cost vs fun factor was way high... )

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

Here's my view...... why spend all that $$$ putting it togeather for it to blow up in the end when were only talking about $600 for a set of forged psitons..... just not worth it in the end when everything goes and it will cost way more in the long run..............
Just my .02

eviltwins

Destroking it from 360 cubic inches to whatever a 4.8 crank plus a big bore makes it doesn't really make sense. A T76 is going to be plenty efficient on a 360-370 inch motor, all you're going to be doing is sacrificing low end power, torque, and driveability on the street.

CHRISPY

Personally I would go 6L block, forged pistons and decent rods. 370ci will be a great setup and be VERY reliable. You'll regret using stock pistons and personally I'd do the good rods as well for the slight difference in cost.

V8_DSM_V8again

the short stroke big bore makes sense with forged everything and huge boost...

Look at ken d's engines..

Juggernaut

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, seems like he does pretty well with that type of setup!... Instead of everyone telling the guy he is dumb for doing this, how about giving suggestions
on how to make his setup better(like he asked). IMO, throw some forged pistons in there for peace of mind. That way you wont have to worry about turning up the boost. In a 2800# Fox with a huge stall, that bastard will fly!

Ryan

Sledgehammer

Cool guys...Keep the suggestions coming...

I understand everyone suggestions about using forged rods/pistons and/or keeping it a 6.0... I also understand that this would most likely be the better/stronger way to build it...

But like I said at the start my piggy bank is really low and I enjoy taking the path least traveled. (I find I tend to learn more down that path)

I have only $300 dollars in the low mileage 6.0 minus all the f.i. stuff...A set of rods and pistons is going to be close to $1000 dollars and for that I can get my carb intake, MSD, head and main studs etc...
And it most likely would be a lot easer to just keep it a 6.0 but half the reason I decided to build a gen 3 was I wanted to build something different than the small and big blocks I have been building...

This isn't my first trip arounf the block. I have built lots of engines over the years from high dollar blown alcohol motors, high winding small blocks, bad *** N20 big blocks, budget bracket motors and good ole' junkyard bombs...

This is my first trip down the gen3/ turbo path...
From what I see the gen3 is a pretty decent engine package as it is...(a lot better then the mouse motor in most area's)

Experience has taught me that a smaller engine is almost always more efficient and since I am not going to need more than 550/600 hp to meet my goals, I decided to see about trying out this combo as it is pretty much a bolt in deal as far as a destroker goes...

I think at the power level I am looking at, if I keep the boost level some what within reason and keep plenty of fuel in it that it should last this coming race season (we only race for 5 monthes)

The deal breaker is most likely if I have to try and get a extra $1000 for forged rods/pistons it will mean I wont make it for the first couple of monthes of racing...

The plan is once I get myself healed up in the piggy bank dept. I want to buld a destroker like this with a ls2 block (to get the little stang even lighter and to help offset some of the weight the updated cage etc. will add) Forged rods/pistons, good heads and a lot more boost to see if I can get the old car in the 8's...

Keep the suggestions and ideas coming...

I posted this mostly to see what people thoughts were on the short stroke /small cube idea (on boost) and the stock vs forged debate at the power levels I am looking at...

Thanks to all thosw who have posted

Slowhawk

iTrader: (12)

I like your thinking. We built a forged 4.8l last winter for a truck.It has so far put down 565rwhp at 16lbs of boost on a T67 Turbo.We are adding the carb intake,fuel system in a few weeks and want to run 20+lbs to see if we can get 650-700rwhp out of this small motor---on pump gas too. This 4800lb truck ran 11.8 at 122mph so far.Your 10second pass will come easilly.I'd be thinking high 9's instead.

Sledgehammer

What pistons/rods did you use...?

Are you going carb or just using the intake for your f.i system...?

My feeling is with good heads etc and 20+# boost, 3hp per cubic in should be possible if you dont lift the heads...(At the flywheel)

eviltwins

Most of the motors he builds for those race cars are still in the 380 plus cubic inch range, don't forget.

For a street driven vehicle there is no reason to destroke a 6.0, period.

TeeKay

Being an old SBC hand myself, I like the idea of a way oversquare motor. The short stroke can hi-wind and make hp in the stratosphere where others dare not go. What's your rpm target 7500 or so? Or are you just gonna build a small small block and see where you can go? You said stock pieces so I'm gonna assume you are reaching for 7K. There's power up there! GL, it can be a real budget bargain, since most LSx folks look for more CI, not less. The turbo can make the power if it's sized right. Have fun! That's what this is all about.

BTW, don't mean to be a silly fella, but I know you've heard a SBC at 8500 rpm! It'll make your neck hair stand up!

Sledgehammer

Yep...Nothing like a mouse wound tight coming out of the waterbox...

That is one of the things that I miss with a Gen3 ...They don't have that same sound as a mouse or a rat because of the different firing order.

Sledgehammer

Read this thread...

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-induction/433354-why-most-setups-not-run-their-full-potential.html

Parish8 does a good job covering my thoughts on turbo size vs engine size and how a given size turbo can make more power on a smaller engine vs a larger engine...

Now granted if you increased the size of the turbo on the larger engine so the the turbo is working in a more efficient part of the map it will make more power...

But the down side is the the larger turbo most of the time also means spending more coin...

I still believe that a de-stroked 6.0 with a T72-76 turbo with the same mods will make more power than a 6.0 will because it will be in a more efficient part of the map for the turbo...

But hey...Then agian I may be all wet...

bluecamaroz28

That's great high revving setup.

Why all the hassle when you can get there with H/C package+spray.

GrahamHill

iTrader: (6)

Sweet idea! Should turn up REAL fast! Just keep the longest rod you can in there and I bet it'll run right beside anything < 400 inches.

RealQuick

iTrader: (14)

If money is tight, then get the forged pistons and dont port the heads. Just use the stock 6.0 heads.

parish8

iTrader: (6)

while i agree you can get more peek hp on a smaller engine at higher rpms that doesn't mean i see the point of destroking. you can take a stock 6.0 with rod bolts and vavle spring and get 600+dependable rwhp out of it and it would still be fun to drive on the street.

the only reason i see for less cubes is if more cubes reduces the dependablily of the motor(like a .060 over 6.0 for high boost) or if you have a ci limit for the class you want to race in.

if your worried about pushing the turbo out of it's eff range then get a bigger turbo, not a smaller motor.