Refrigerant intercooler? Why not?
05-17-2006, 07:26 AM
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Refrigerant intercooler? Why not? I see these pics of enormous intercoolers. Seen air/water IC's. Why the heck not cool the charge with some compact refrigerated unit? Most of us carry it on board anyway. Who knows of research on this? Obviously for some reason its not practical or feasible or it would have been done. Seems like someone could make a fortune.
05-17-2006, 08:16 AM
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Try Google, there was a company that would make a custom kit just for that...the new Lightning was supposed to use it but was cancelled.
I read a "paper" on it that basically stated the BTU's created from a high hp turbo could not be reduced with an automotive refrigerant kit....auto's cool a fixed "cabin volume" (250cf??)with a delta of say 110 to 70 for 40 degrees. Turbo...1400cfm....300 to 90 for 210 degree delta.....if anybody could make it work...you're the guy.
I read a "paper" on it that basically stated the BTU's created from a high hp turbo could not be reduced with an automotive refrigerant kit....auto's cool a fixed "cabin volume" (250cf??)with a delta of say 110 to 70 for 40 degrees. Turbo...1400cfm....300 to 90 for 210 degree delta.....if anybody could make it work...you're the guy.
05-17-2006, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by onfire
Try Google, there was a company that would make a custom kit just for that...the new Lightning was supposed to use it but was cancelled.
I read a "paper" on it that basically stated the BTU's created from a high hp turbo could not be reduced with an automotive refrigerant kit....auto's cool a fixed "cabin volume" (250cf??)with a delta of say 110 to 70 for 40 degrees. Turbo...1400cfm....300 to 90 for 210 degree delta.....if anybody could make it work...you're the guy.
I read a "paper" on it that basically stated the BTU's created from a high hp turbo could not be reduced with an automotive refrigerant kit....auto's cool a fixed "cabin volume" (250cf??)with a delta of say 110 to 70 for 40 degrees. Turbo...1400cfm....300 to 90 for 210 degree delta.....if anybody could make it work...you're the guy.
Enter Ford's new patented SuperCooler technology. Unlike traditional intercoolers that dissipate heat from the supercharged air by circulating coolant through a front-mounted air-cooled radiator, the SuperCooler uses the vehicle's air-conditioning system to chill a small storage tank of coolant to about 30 degrees Fahrenheit.
Apparently it is only good for a few seconds and then has to regenerate. But.... it is possible.
05-17-2006, 09:56 AM
#5
I'd done a lot of reading on the Lightning 'Supercooling' system when it was in the works because it seemed like an interesting concept. What I remember was that the charge was good for roughly 15 seconds (their goal being more than enough time for a quarter mile run) and then took 2-5 minutes to recharge.
You had a light on the dash that indicated when the charge was ready for use, and a button to engage it for use. Ford was advertising at the time that it was good for an additional 50 hp.
It was not a constant/continual use system though. It's marketability also seems rather limited. There are plenty of ways of getting that additional power available all the time. Once you've exhausted all those avenues you're getting into the realm of extreme setups. Once in that realm, it really has no advantage over your typical racing iced air-water setup.
You had a light on the dash that indicated when the charge was ready for use, and a button to engage it for use. Ford was advertising at the time that it was good for an additional 50 hp.
It was not a constant/continual use system though. It's marketability also seems rather limited. There are plenty of ways of getting that additional power available all the time. Once you've exhausted all those avenues you're getting into the realm of extreme setups. Once in that realm, it really has no advantage over your typical racing iced air-water setup.
05-17-2006, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jRaskell
I'd done a lot of reading on the Lightning 'Supercooling' system when it was in the works because it seemed like an interesting concept. What I remember was that the charge was good for roughly 15 seconds (their goal being more than enough time for a quarter mile run) and then took 2-5 minutes to recharge.
You had a light on the dash that indicated when the charge was ready for use, and a button to engage it for use. Ford was advertising at the time that it was good for an additional 50 hp.
It was not a constant/continual use system though. It's marketability also seems rather limited. There are plenty of ways of getting that additional power available all the time. Once you've exhausted all those avenues you're getting into the realm of extreme setups. Once in that realm, it really has no advantage over your typical racing iced air-water setup.
You had a light on the dash that indicated when the charge was ready for use, and a button to engage it for use. Ford was advertising at the time that it was good for an additional 50 hp.
It was not a constant/continual use system though. It's marketability also seems rather limited. There are plenty of ways of getting that additional power available all the time. Once you've exhausted all those avenues you're getting into the realm of extreme setups. Once in that realm, it really has no advantage over your typical racing iced air-water setup.
The idea is to just eliminate the huge intercooler. I know there are ways to make the power but the IC is all im talking about. I understand a conventional intercooler does not need any mechanical parts to operate and works.... but why be content with that? AC blows cold all the time. I know its for a fixed cabin area but what you have built in is "very cold air blowing all the time". How can that be used/harnessed? Gotta be a way. Seems like the intake tube could be chilled with an internal coil or something, all the time. Not going to beat my head into the wall because I cant help but wonder why its not been designed by now. More curious to know why not.
05-17-2006, 10:44 AM
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05-17-2006, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 2001WS6Vert
Well.... thats just freakin' interesting. Have to see what I can do to improve the idea. (really help if I were smart.....)
05-17-2006, 11:55 AM
#10
i have thought about this LOTS!
an air con style system would never work! it would simplerly requier more power than you would get out of it (hence the saying you dont get anyhting for nothing).
the best way i can think of is to run both an intercooler and a chargecooler! you use the intercooler to take out most of the heat, getting the IAT down close to ambient. then use the chargecooler to take even more heat out the inlet air! that way you can get sub ambient temps!
also the water in the chargecooler would take a lot longer to heat up and would give better performance at the track, or last longer on the road! and when the water is upto ambient temp then you just turn the aircon on and use some (if not all) of the AC to cool the water!
this is a much more complex system than just running one but there are some good advantages! mainly you would get sub ambient air temps for quite a while (i would think) and thats before you add a litttle meth or N2O to get them down even further!
now if you wanted to take it to the extreme i have heard of people running dry ice with a liquid (cant remember what the liquid was) and getting about -170degres C IAT!!!!!!! now thats cold!
i also remeber a thread in the advanced tech section. i will try and hunt it out for you all!
thanks chris.
an air con style system would never work! it would simplerly requier more power than you would get out of it (hence the saying you dont get anyhting for nothing).
the best way i can think of is to run both an intercooler and a chargecooler! you use the intercooler to take out most of the heat, getting the IAT down close to ambient. then use the chargecooler to take even more heat out the inlet air! that way you can get sub ambient temps!
also the water in the chargecooler would take a lot longer to heat up and would give better performance at the track, or last longer on the road! and when the water is upto ambient temp then you just turn the aircon on and use some (if not all) of the AC to cool the water!
this is a much more complex system than just running one but there are some good advantages! mainly you would get sub ambient air temps for quite a while (i would think) and thats before you add a litttle meth or N2O to get them down even further!
now if you wanted to take it to the extreme i have heard of people running dry ice with a liquid (cant remember what the liquid was) and getting about -170degres C IAT!!!!!!! now thats cold!
i also remeber a thread in the advanced tech section. i will try and hunt it out for you all!
thanks chris.
05-17-2006, 02:18 PM
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The system show above looks like a mini icerink system. All that is is a duel transfer system. The freion coolent is used to super cool a brine solution to below freezing then its pumped to the floor. The problem with using a system such as this is it would take a lot of room and need a large open air heat sink and it would be heavy. It would be able to run all the time though.
