What upgrades could I do with a P1SC Procharger, to get the most out of it?
05-27-2006, 01:27 PM
#1
What upgrades could I do with a P1SC Procharger, to get the most out of it? Hey Guys,
I know the D1SC supports a more upgraded motor,...but I was curious to see what I could get to really push the P1SC? I would like to reach (at least) 500 rwhp, and at least 450 rwtq.
I really want to get the most I can out if a P1,...what could I upgrade on the car. It's would be all stock, except for the P1. It would also have the D1's 8 rib set-up from Ati and the thicker intercoolers as well.
Could I get a cam? headers? intake? etc. If you can, please also post how much it would generally go for, and what type of a performance jump it might show.
Your experience is appreciated!! Thanks in advance everyone!!
I know the D1SC supports a more upgraded motor,...but I was curious to see what I could get to really push the P1SC? I would like to reach (at least) 500 rwhp, and at least 450 rwtq.
I really want to get the most I can out if a P1,...what could I upgrade on the car. It's would be all stock, except for the P1. It would also have the D1's 8 rib set-up from Ati and the thicker intercoolers as well.
Could I get a cam? headers? intake? etc. If you can, please also post how much it would generally go for, and what type of a performance jump it might show.
Your experience is appreciated!! Thanks in advance everyone!!
Last edited by 2000FormulaMan; 05-27-2006 at 01:34 PM.
05-27-2006, 01:46 PM
#2
I got 500rwhp (M6 12 bolt) with a stock P1SC setup on a stock 2000 motor with LT headers. Ran a 6 rib 3.2 reichhart pulley and made around 8psi or so. With a better drive like the SDCE or 8rib ATI you can get some decent power depending on your altitute/temp. P1SC isnt a bad blower at all and isnt that much smaller then a D1.
LT headers will help as well.
You can also do a front mount intercooler, that will help quite a bit. So will switching from the ATI bypass to something that seals a little better. Everything adds up..
LT headers will help as well.
You can also do a front mount intercooler, that will help quite a bit. So will switching from the ATI bypass to something that seals a little better. Everything adds up..
Last edited by kp; 05-27-2006 at 02:09 PM.
05-28-2006, 06:31 AM
#3
Here is a list of items that I recently put together for building up the chassis prior to adding the horsepower. People are always asking the question of whether to go with a head and cam package, or go with a supercharger or turbocharger. There is no way you are to match the power of an ATI ProCharger with a head and cam package unless you use a pretty radical camshaft. Nitrous oxide could be used instead of going the forced induction route, with very good results at a fraction of the cost. A cold air kit would be required if you elect to use nitrous oxide instead of going the forced induction (ATI ProCharger) route. The ATI ProChargers come with a K&N cone filter. With forced induction, such as the ATI ProCharger, the power is always going to be there when you want it, with no nitrous bottles to constantly refill. A turbocharger could be used instead of an ATI ProCharger, but I am not convinced that the turbo kits currently out on the market will stand the test of time. TurboChargers go through extreme heat cycles, which can fracture the turbo housing mounts.
With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.
Everyone has their opinions on what is the best package, and here is mine.
1. Subframe Connectors - Absolutely necessary to keep your F Body from twisting and stretching. I have seen too many of these cars lose their door to fender gaps from having gone too long without subframe connectors. Subframe connectors will make the car handle better, you'll get fewer squeaks and the car will get better traction.
2. Torque Arm - BMR, Global West and Spohn all make torque arms that relocate the front mount off of the transmission by relocating the front mount back behind the transmission. The relocation of the front mount relieves the stress from the tailshaft of the transmission that the torque arm places on it, as a result of trying to contain the rear-end and it's rotational stresses. The stock torque arm is a stamped piece of sheetmetal that has broken apart for many people, and it sometimes takes out the driveshaft with it when it goes. By relocating the front mount of the torque arm behind the transmission, the geometry of the rear suspension becomes much better and really aids in hooking up the rear suspension. While replacing the torque arm, check the transmission mount, as the stock torque arm places a huge load on the mount, and the mount breaks quite often when using the factory torque arm. The adjustability of these aftermarket torque arms allows the user to adjust the pinion angle of the rear suspension which aids in finding traction.
3. Moser 12 bolt or 9 inch - Sooner or later the weak 7.5" Chevy S-10 derived 10 bolt is going to break. I wouldn't waste any money into attempting to build up the 10 bolt, it just doesn't work. There isn't one strong point to the stocker. For those of you with a six speed transmission, the 10 bolt has broken on many M6 cars with stock power. Expect the worse to happen... 3:73 gears in the Moser rear-end is a good compromise, especially when adding a lot of power to the engine.
4. Driveshaft - The stock GM driveshaft have broken for many enthusiast, both the steel and the 3.0" aluminum GM driveshafts are fairly weak. I recommend an aftermarket 3.5" aluminum driveshaft with a 1350 Yoke with a 1350 U Joint. Combined with the Moser rear with their supplied 1350 yoke, you will have a strong drivetrain.
5. Clutch and pressure plate - I recommend the Spec Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate. Expect some chatter for the first 500 miles, then it will be pretty smooth. I would also add the '01-'02 slave cylinder for the older models, and do the "drill mod" to the master cylinder. Do a search on this forum for the drill mod, and you will see what it entails.
At this point I believe the suspension is capable off supporting a lot of horsepower, and you can go straight to item 14.
For those of you who are dragstrip bound, I would also add a few additional items.
6. Adjustable lower control arms - The aftermarket lower control arms are much stouter, and will not flex like the factory lower control arms. Going with adjustable ones will allow the user to center the rear end in the wheelwell. The stock rear end position from the factory tends to be .5" towards the rear of the car. You really won't notice it until larger diameter tires are installed.
7. Lower control arm relocation brackets - Lower control arm relocation brackets are meant to be used when the car has been lowered, which alters the angle of the lower control arms. We have found that the relocation brackets also help in getting traction in non lowered cars. We use the weld on style that BMR offers.
8. Panhard bar - The factory pan hard bar is pretty flimsy and additional traction can be found by replacing the factory pan hard bar with a heavier duty aftermarket bar. The rear in these cars tends to sit closer to the right side, and by purchasing an adjustable pan hard bar, the rear-end can be centered in the body.
9. Strut Tower Brace - Eliminate flexing in the front end by adding an aftermarket strut tower brace. You will also notice that the car will handle better with a strut tower brace.
10. Battery box relocation - By relocating the battery to the trunk, you will remove a lot of weight off the front of the car and place the weight behind the rear-end, where it will aid in traction. The car will also be able to handle better with the weight relocation.
11. Rear coil spring air bags - By experimenting with adding more air to the right air bag than to the left one, better off the line traction can be found.
12. Adjustable shocks and front coil over springs - We use the Hal QA1 12 way adjustable shocks on our cars. It is easy to adjust these shocks for street use, and then readjust them for strip use by simply rotating the 12 way adjustable dial. The Hal QA1 front coil over springs allows the front end height to easily be adjusted.
13. K member - By replacing the front K member and upper and lower control arms with light weight aftermarket tubular ones, a lot of weight is removed from the front suspension. Since front end weight is removed, better off the line traction and better handling will occur. We have had good success with the BMR parts, and combined with the Hal QA1 shocks and coil over front springs, gives the car a much better chance of getting traction on the starting line.
14. Headers and cat back exhaust - Everyone has their favorites, but we have grown very fond of Hooker and Flowtech headers, and the Hooker and Magnaflow Cat Back exhaust systems.
Flowtech and Hooker ceramic coated headers fit very well, with excellent ground clearance. The ceramic coatings go a long way towards keeping the exhaust temps in the pipes, keeping the engine bay cooler and improving internal exhaust scavenging. These two brands of headers will give you 2.5" more in ground clearance compared to SLP headers.
The Hooker and Magnaflow cat back exhaust systems give these cars a good muscular sound that will not drown out your stereo while driving down the road. The exhaust tubing is larger than the stock tubing and is mandrel bent, for better exhaust flow.
For those of you who want it loud. If you are looking for an exhaust system that will annoy everyone around you, the two above exhaust systems are not for you. The SLP "Loud Mouth" cat back is a good system for those of you who want to be noticed. When we have one of these cars on my dyno with a loud mouth exhaust system, everyone around our area can hear the car!
15. ATI ProCharger D-1SC eight rib supercharger - Simply the best and easiest way to get 450 to 500 rwhp out of your car in my opinion, when combined with headers and a good cat back exhaust system. The car will still see great part throttle gas mileage, overall driveability will still be excellent, and the power is always there when you want it. At 8 pounds of boost, the car will be very dependable, and with the twin high flow air to air intercoolers, unleaded premium is all you need to use. I recommend the ATI ProCharger D-1SC "tuner" kit, as the D-1SC can handle future mods much better than the P-1SC. You will need 42 lb fuel injectors, a 255 litre in tank fuel pump, and chassis dyno tuning with the "tuner" kit.
The P-1SC will still be able to handle headers and a cat back, plus a camshaft, but it will have to be spun harder to make the same amount of boost as when compared to the D-1SC. If you end up throwing in better rods and pistons, and want to crank the boost up, you can run into where the P-1SC won't be able to make the desired boost level.
Longtube Headers will generally add approx 15 to 20 rwhp when combined with 8 psi of boost. A good blower camshaft can add approx 30 to 40 rwhp. The ProCharger comes with it's own intake system. If you were referring to an intake manifold, I would go with the LS6 intake manifold, which is good for approx 10 to 15 rwhp.
Hopefully this list will help you in your quest for having a quick car! Bob
With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.
Everyone has their opinions on what is the best package, and here is mine.
1. Subframe Connectors - Absolutely necessary to keep your F Body from twisting and stretching. I have seen too many of these cars lose their door to fender gaps from having gone too long without subframe connectors. Subframe connectors will make the car handle better, you'll get fewer squeaks and the car will get better traction.
2. Torque Arm - BMR, Global West and Spohn all make torque arms that relocate the front mount off of the transmission by relocating the front mount back behind the transmission. The relocation of the front mount relieves the stress from the tailshaft of the transmission that the torque arm places on it, as a result of trying to contain the rear-end and it's rotational stresses. The stock torque arm is a stamped piece of sheetmetal that has broken apart for many people, and it sometimes takes out the driveshaft with it when it goes. By relocating the front mount of the torque arm behind the transmission, the geometry of the rear suspension becomes much better and really aids in hooking up the rear suspension. While replacing the torque arm, check the transmission mount, as the stock torque arm places a huge load on the mount, and the mount breaks quite often when using the factory torque arm. The adjustability of these aftermarket torque arms allows the user to adjust the pinion angle of the rear suspension which aids in finding traction.
3. Moser 12 bolt or 9 inch - Sooner or later the weak 7.5" Chevy S-10 derived 10 bolt is going to break. I wouldn't waste any money into attempting to build up the 10 bolt, it just doesn't work. There isn't one strong point to the stocker. For those of you with a six speed transmission, the 10 bolt has broken on many M6 cars with stock power. Expect the worse to happen... 3:73 gears in the Moser rear-end is a good compromise, especially when adding a lot of power to the engine.
4. Driveshaft - The stock GM driveshaft have broken for many enthusiast, both the steel and the 3.0" aluminum GM driveshafts are fairly weak. I recommend an aftermarket 3.5" aluminum driveshaft with a 1350 Yoke with a 1350 U Joint. Combined with the Moser rear with their supplied 1350 yoke, you will have a strong drivetrain.
5. Clutch and pressure plate - I recommend the Spec Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate. Expect some chatter for the first 500 miles, then it will be pretty smooth. I would also add the '01-'02 slave cylinder for the older models, and do the "drill mod" to the master cylinder. Do a search on this forum for the drill mod, and you will see what it entails.
At this point I believe the suspension is capable off supporting a lot of horsepower, and you can go straight to item 14.
For those of you who are dragstrip bound, I would also add a few additional items.
6. Adjustable lower control arms - The aftermarket lower control arms are much stouter, and will not flex like the factory lower control arms. Going with adjustable ones will allow the user to center the rear end in the wheelwell. The stock rear end position from the factory tends to be .5" towards the rear of the car. You really won't notice it until larger diameter tires are installed.
7. Lower control arm relocation brackets - Lower control arm relocation brackets are meant to be used when the car has been lowered, which alters the angle of the lower control arms. We have found that the relocation brackets also help in getting traction in non lowered cars. We use the weld on style that BMR offers.
8. Panhard bar - The factory pan hard bar is pretty flimsy and additional traction can be found by replacing the factory pan hard bar with a heavier duty aftermarket bar. The rear in these cars tends to sit closer to the right side, and by purchasing an adjustable pan hard bar, the rear-end can be centered in the body.
9. Strut Tower Brace - Eliminate flexing in the front end by adding an aftermarket strut tower brace. You will also notice that the car will handle better with a strut tower brace.
10. Battery box relocation - By relocating the battery to the trunk, you will remove a lot of weight off the front of the car and place the weight behind the rear-end, where it will aid in traction. The car will also be able to handle better with the weight relocation.
11. Rear coil spring air bags - By experimenting with adding more air to the right air bag than to the left one, better off the line traction can be found.
12. Adjustable shocks and front coil over springs - We use the Hal QA1 12 way adjustable shocks on our cars. It is easy to adjust these shocks for street use, and then readjust them for strip use by simply rotating the 12 way adjustable dial. The Hal QA1 front coil over springs allows the front end height to easily be adjusted.
13. K member - By replacing the front K member and upper and lower control arms with light weight aftermarket tubular ones, a lot of weight is removed from the front suspension. Since front end weight is removed, better off the line traction and better handling will occur. We have had good success with the BMR parts, and combined with the Hal QA1 shocks and coil over front springs, gives the car a much better chance of getting traction on the starting line.
14. Headers and cat back exhaust - Everyone has their favorites, but we have grown very fond of Hooker and Flowtech headers, and the Hooker and Magnaflow Cat Back exhaust systems.
Flowtech and Hooker ceramic coated headers fit very well, with excellent ground clearance. The ceramic coatings go a long way towards keeping the exhaust temps in the pipes, keeping the engine bay cooler and improving internal exhaust scavenging. These two brands of headers will give you 2.5" more in ground clearance compared to SLP headers.
The Hooker and Magnaflow cat back exhaust systems give these cars a good muscular sound that will not drown out your stereo while driving down the road. The exhaust tubing is larger than the stock tubing and is mandrel bent, for better exhaust flow.
For those of you who want it loud. If you are looking for an exhaust system that will annoy everyone around you, the two above exhaust systems are not for you. The SLP "Loud Mouth" cat back is a good system for those of you who want to be noticed. When we have one of these cars on my dyno with a loud mouth exhaust system, everyone around our area can hear the car!
15. ATI ProCharger D-1SC eight rib supercharger - Simply the best and easiest way to get 450 to 500 rwhp out of your car in my opinion, when combined with headers and a good cat back exhaust system. The car will still see great part throttle gas mileage, overall driveability will still be excellent, and the power is always there when you want it. At 8 pounds of boost, the car will be very dependable, and with the twin high flow air to air intercoolers, unleaded premium is all you need to use. I recommend the ATI ProCharger D-1SC "tuner" kit, as the D-1SC can handle future mods much better than the P-1SC. You will need 42 lb fuel injectors, a 255 litre in tank fuel pump, and chassis dyno tuning with the "tuner" kit.
The P-1SC will still be able to handle headers and a cat back, plus a camshaft, but it will have to be spun harder to make the same amount of boost as when compared to the D-1SC. If you end up throwing in better rods and pistons, and want to crank the boost up, you can run into where the P-1SC won't be able to make the desired boost level.
Longtube Headers will generally add approx 15 to 20 rwhp when combined with 8 psi of boost. A good blower camshaft can add approx 30 to 40 rwhp. The ProCharger comes with it's own intake system. If you were referring to an intake manifold, I would go with the LS6 intake manifold, which is good for approx 10 to 15 rwhp.
Hopefully this list will help you in your quest for having a quick car! Bob
05-28-2006, 05:14 PM
#5
Staging Lane
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The P1 when intercooled can make good power. I have a '04 GTO all stock except for LT's and a catback making 501rwhp at 9 psi. The engine is all stock. I'm using a Reichard Racing 3.4" pulley. The GTO kits are all 8 rib.
05-28-2006, 07:47 PM
#6
BOSS APPROVED!
In no order: FMIC, 60 lbs injectors, blower cam with revs set in the 6600 range, long tube headers, no cats, good catback, SDCE 8 rib tensioner with the 3.4 pulley, ATI superdampner (pinned), 255 fuel pump, and tuned by a FI expert. That should do the trick!
05-29-2006, 01:19 AM
#7
LS1Tech Editor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NorCal and SoCal
Posts: 270
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Urban Legend
In no order: FMIC, 60 lbs injectors, blower cam with revs set in the 6600 range, long tube headers, no cats, good catback, SDCE 8 rib tensioner with the 3.4 pulley, ATI superdampner (pinned), 255 fuel pump, and tuned by a FI expert. That should do the trick!
Trending Topics
05-29-2006, 09:31 AM
#8
TECH Fanatic
you can run into where the P-1SC won't be able to make the desired boost level.
im lookin at a 02 blown Z06, no supporting mods, P1sc, 535rwhp, 42lb inj., 6psi.
and was thinking of doing a forged 346, mild cam, LT's, 600rwhp.
do you think the p1sc would fair ok. i figured with the cam and LT's i may only need
8-10psi? what do you guys think......
05-29-2006, 10:28 AM
#9
Originally Posted by loloone
Add to the above either a Fast 90/90 or ported LS6 intake mani and ported TB.
No sir. Save the Fast 90/90 money and put in in the stock market. Too many people on this board are pushing huge numbers through stock LS6/TB.
05-29-2006, 06:20 PM
#10
Originally Posted by 2000FormulaMan
Thank you so much for the response guys.
Bob, would you have a good idea of what type of cam would work best with the P1? Hopefully something that is very streetable. Thanks!
Bob, would you have a good idea of what type of cam would work best with the P1? Hopefully something that is very streetable. Thanks!
05-29-2006, 06:23 PM
#11
Originally Posted by M6HuggerSS
so at what boost level or rwhp level do you need to upgrade.
im lookin at a 02 blown Z06, no supporting mods, P1sc, 535rwhp, 42lb inj., 6psi.
and was thinking of doing a forged 346, mild cam, LT's, 600rwhp.
do you think the p1sc would fair ok. i figured with the cam and LT's i may only need
8-10psi? what do you guys think......
im lookin at a 02 blown Z06, no supporting mods, P1sc, 535rwhp, 42lb inj., 6psi.
and was thinking of doing a forged 346, mild cam, LT's, 600rwhp.
do you think the p1sc would fair ok. i figured with the cam and LT's i may only need
8-10psi? what do you guys think......
05-29-2006, 08:29 PM
#14
Mike?!? are you still planning on staying smog legal with cats? if so I think it's going to be really hard reaching that level unless you do lt's and switch back for smog but I remember you saying you wanted the sleeper sound?
05-29-2006, 08:45 PM
#15
11 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sunny San Diego
Posts: 3,066
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 2000FormulaMan
What type of Combo were you running? How did it all work out for you?
05-30-2006, 12:17 AM
#16
Originally Posted by 1sicws6
Mike?!? are you still planning on staying smog legal with cats? if so I think it's going to be really hard reaching that level unless you do lt's and switch back for smog but I remember you saying you wanted the sleeper sound?
Maybe they are not all smog legal.....but that's kinda why I'm asking around.
As for the Sleeper sound, it's more about the Head Unit itself,...so it doesn't have such a noticable whine. I mean the gmmg exhaust is pretty damn loud.
One of the reasons I would like to stay away from the LT's,...is I'm afraid it will make my exhaust REALLY loud. Do you think any of these suggestions would drastically alter the procharger whine though?
05-30-2006, 08:37 AM
#17
TECH Resident
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lee County, FL
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
- Run a larger air filter
- Run a 90 instead of the ATI inlet hat
- FMIC
- Cutout
- Pulley w/ supporting fueling/tuning mods
I'd do all this stuff before a new intake manifold or cam
- Run a 90 instead of the ATI inlet hat
- FMIC
- Cutout
- Pulley w/ supporting fueling/tuning mods
I'd do all this stuff before a new intake manifold or cam
05-30-2006, 07:57 PM
#19
TECH Fanatic
you will need to be pushing 12 psi of boost through your 346 to see an honest 600 rwhp. You will need 60lb fuel injectors as well. You should be able to get 12 psi out of the P-1SC. Bob
i figured afetr forging the 346 and adding LG's and a mild blower cam i should be around 550-570rwhp.... then i figured, 60lb inj.'s, and 2 more psi should do it no?
i would have thought doubling the PSI to 12 would be around 650rwhp.
am i that far off? is 20rwhp per psi correct?
