???'s about start-up tune
06-02-2007, 04:51 PM
#1
Launching!
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???'s about start-up tune I'm trying to get my car up and running again, and get back to dd status. I have installed the maggie with the 2.9 pulley for 10#'s of boost; my problem is that lately all of the little things that are needed to button this up and get moving are not falling into place. Because of how close the throttle body now is to the air lid, the MAF has to be removed and I have to run a speed density tune. There are only two dyno shops here on Oahu, and neither of them are willing to even touch my car because of the SD tune. 
I have EFILive for tuning software, but have no idea how tune with it yet, I bought it to learn but I don't have enough time right now to get this done on the street before I deploy back to Iraq. I need this car up and running ASAP, so I can get it back home and put it under wraps until I return home next year. I have a few weeks to get this done, but a lot of family/work stuff to do as well in prep for leaving.
I NEED HEEEEEELLLLLP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's crunch time, I gotta finish this. How can I do this?????????
If I SEVERELY modify my air box then MAYBE I can install a MAF again with a short cone filter, for an intake; but what's the limits of the stock MAF, and an 85mm MAF? Would they even be able to keep up with 10#'s?
I have EFILive for tuning software, but have no idea how tune with it yet, I bought it to learn but I don't have enough time right now to get this done on the street before I deploy back to Iraq. I need this car up and running ASAP, so I can get it back home and put it under wraps until I return home next year. I have a few weeks to get this done, but a lot of family/work stuff to do as well in prep for leaving.
I NEED HEEEEEELLLLLP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's crunch time, I gotta finish this. How can I do this?????????
If I SEVERELY modify my air box then MAYBE I can install a MAF again with a short cone filter, for an intake; but what's the limits of the stock MAF, and an 85mm MAF? Would they even be able to keep up with 10#'s?
06-02-2007, 07:42 PM
#2
Run a 90 deg bend off the TB off to the right or left of the engine (similar to a new GTO TB MAF set up)
Put the MAF off the end of the pipe and the air fliter off the other side.
All you need is some silicone, clamps and a cone air filter. Go back to the stock maf tune and have the local shops tune your car with the maf.
IF you want to run the SD tune, do the same 90 deg bend off the TB, delete the MAF and just run a filter off of it.
Sit down and think it out and it'll fall into place. Ditch the stock air lid, get a BMR radiator shroud and bling it up a lil.
J
Put the MAF off the end of the pipe and the air fliter off the other side.
All you need is some silicone, clamps and a cone air filter. Go back to the stock maf tune and have the local shops tune your car with the maf.
IF you want to run the SD tune, do the same 90 deg bend off the TB, delete the MAF and just run a filter off of it.
Sit down and think it out and it'll fall into place. Ditch the stock air lid, get a BMR radiator shroud and bling it up a lil.
J
06-03-2007, 12:46 PM
#5
I'll try to explain this as best as I can. I wish I had the knowledge to tune my own car. I would spend as many hours as it would take to get my car to run like a stock car like the professional tuners do on their own cars.
I am by no means anyone you would want to consult with on tuning procedures and processes. I am simply throwing out my basic understanding of tuning. If I am wrong in any way, no need for a flame. Simply correct me and we will all be the wiser. Should I be completely wrong, lol, I'll delete my post so no one is dumber for having read this, I will be awarded no points, and God have mercy on my soul....
While reading this, remember to think of boost in its basic term = more airflow.
-The MAF is setup to read the amount of air coming into the motor. But it can't support more than 450hp which is why cars can run with 4-5 psi of boost on a stock tune. Anything over that amount, which is generally everything, requires you to manipulate the tune so that you are simply using x amount of fuel and x amount of timing at x rpms. This is how a MAF tune works. It doesn't actually "read" the amount of incoming air anymore. You start off by making the tune very rich with safe timing and add boost and change fuel/timing slowly. Sometimes a tune can be perfected in 5 runs, sometimes it takes 25 runs. My car ran on a MAF tune with over 600rwhp with little to no problems. This is fine for supercharged applications because you are belt driven with a pulley and your boost never changes but this poses a problem for turbo cars. Obviously, we are not belt driven and depending on what gear and rpm we go WOT, our turbos will be in different stages of spool with differing spool times. My tune was set for me to get on it at 3000rpm and reach full spool by say 4000rpm (just throwing it out there). My MAF tune is then throwing the max amount of fuel and timing at the motor at 4000 rpms because that is the "full boost point". But say I get on it early at 2000rpm and reach full spool by 3500 rpm. My motor is now making full boost 500rpm sooner than it is expecting and my air/fuel is going to be lean until 4000 rpms. Or say something goes flaky with the wastegate and I run a few psi more or less boost at 4000 rpms, I am going to run too rich or too lean, hopefully too rich.
SD is better because you change the computer to actually read the boost/amount of incoming air by changing the MAP sensor to a 2 or 3-bar. The car is then actually reading how much boost it is receiving and you can simply push the up or down button on a boost controller (or turn the **** on a MBC) and go from running 10lbs of boost one run to 20 lbs of boost the next because the computer is going to recognize the amount of incoming air and change the amount of fuel*** accordingly. And if you run into a problem with the wastegate and run too much or too little boost, the engine is going to see this and protect itself.
Does that make sense?
***Notice I said change the amount of fuel accordingly. I don't know the capabilities of a SD tune to change its timing. Timing may still be run on a rpm-based timing table. Can anyone chime in?
I am by no means anyone you would want to consult with on tuning procedures and processes. I am simply throwing out my basic understanding of tuning. If I am wrong in any way, no need for a flame. Simply correct me and we will all be the wiser. Should I be completely wrong, lol, I'll delete my post so no one is dumber for having read this, I will be awarded no points, and God have mercy on my soul....
While reading this, remember to think of boost in its basic term = more airflow.
-The MAF is setup to read the amount of air coming into the motor. But it can't support more than 450hp which is why cars can run with 4-5 psi of boost on a stock tune. Anything over that amount, which is generally everything, requires you to manipulate the tune so that you are simply using x amount of fuel and x amount of timing at x rpms. This is how a MAF tune works. It doesn't actually "read" the amount of incoming air anymore. You start off by making the tune very rich with safe timing and add boost and change fuel/timing slowly. Sometimes a tune can be perfected in 5 runs, sometimes it takes 25 runs. My car ran on a MAF tune with over 600rwhp with little to no problems. This is fine for supercharged applications because you are belt driven with a pulley and your boost never changes but this poses a problem for turbo cars. Obviously, we are not belt driven and depending on what gear and rpm we go WOT, our turbos will be in different stages of spool with differing spool times. My tune was set for me to get on it at 3000rpm and reach full spool by say 4000rpm (just throwing it out there). My MAF tune is then throwing the max amount of fuel and timing at the motor at 4000 rpms because that is the "full boost point". But say I get on it early at 2000rpm and reach full spool by 3500 rpm. My motor is now making full boost 500rpm sooner than it is expecting and my air/fuel is going to be lean until 4000 rpms. Or say something goes flaky with the wastegate and I run a few psi more or less boost at 4000 rpms, I am going to run too rich or too lean, hopefully too rich.
SD is better because you change the computer to actually read the boost/amount of incoming air by changing the MAP sensor to a 2 or 3-bar. The car is then actually reading how much boost it is receiving and you can simply push the up or down button on a boost controller (or turn the **** on a MBC) and go from running 10lbs of boost one run to 20 lbs of boost the next because the computer is going to recognize the amount of incoming air and change the amount of fuel*** accordingly. And if you run into a problem with the wastegate and run too much or too little boost, the engine is going to see this and protect itself.
Does that make sense?
***Notice I said change the amount of fuel accordingly. I don't know the capabilities of a SD tune to change its timing. Timing may still be run on a rpm-based timing table. Can anyone chime in?
Last edited by SStolen; 06-03-2007 at 01:04 PM.
06-03-2007, 01:20 PM
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I have a 2 bar sensor installed already, and am not taking it out. Too hard to get to. I would run the SD if I could find a local shop to use the dyno, but have had no luck, they don't want any part of an SD tune, they all insist on MAF tunes only. I don't know enough on tuning with computers to do this alone or I would.
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06-03-2007, 02:26 PM
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No, not yet. I know I need one, but the funds are a little dry right now. It definitely would make tuning TONS easier. I can either buy the wideband or dyno if I can get some time on one, not both right now. I would still have to have the bung welded into the mid-pipe too.
06-03-2007, 02:59 PM
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I tuned my car w/o a wideband but my tune is not complete by all means. A wideband will be ordered here soon. Not to say that you cannot get a drive tune w/o one. It was hard for Justin to do but he got it done.
06-04-2007, 04:55 PM
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You know this is what I would do in your situation.
Time is getting short and you are going to have to leave soon. I would not mess around trying to getto fab a MAF to your car just so you can drive on a partial tune. Since me and you have almost the exact same setup, I would have Ed hook you up with a tune close to mine for your car at 7#'s with the pulley I have. You can have that up and running at 7#'s and still be up there somewhere and it shouldn't take too long to get there. Granted I have a 3.90 9" and M6 and you have a A4, but you can tune your shift points more so then you can the SD tune. When you get back you can take your time tune it right at 10#'s. I made 480 RWHP on my C6 with 5.5 lbs of boost with nothing more then a set of kooks headers and cats. If your tune is close to mine at 7#'s no reason why we should be less then 500, especially with H/C and more boost. Nineball made around 550 with his C6 (yes 6.0) with a similar cam to ours, and headers at 5#'s I believe no heads. I get my car back Saturday, and it will be on the dyno that day as well. Hopefuly all goes well. I will be out of town but its getting done. Then the following week I will be getting all teh parts in my garage that have been waiting onto the car.
Time is getting short and you are going to have to leave soon. I would not mess around trying to getto fab a MAF to your car just so you can drive on a partial tune. Since me and you have almost the exact same setup, I would have Ed hook you up with a tune close to mine for your car at 7#'s with the pulley I have. You can have that up and running at 7#'s and still be up there somewhere and it shouldn't take too long to get there. Granted I have a 3.90 9" and M6 and you have a A4, but you can tune your shift points more so then you can the SD tune. When you get back you can take your time tune it right at 10#'s. I made 480 RWHP on my C6 with 5.5 lbs of boost with nothing more then a set of kooks headers and cats. If your tune is close to mine at 7#'s no reason why we should be less then 500, especially with H/C and more boost. Nineball made around 550 with his C6 (yes 6.0) with a similar cam to ours, and headers at 5#'s I believe no heads. I get my car back Saturday, and it will be on the dyno that day as well. Hopefuly all goes well. I will be out of town but its getting done. Then the following week I will be getting all teh parts in my garage that have been waiting onto the car.
