Go Back   LS1TECH > LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-LS7 PERFORMANCE > Forced Induction
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register iTraderTimeslips Photos Members Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Used CarsVendor Directory
Search

Forced Induction
Superchargers | Turbochargers | Intercoolers
Sponsored by
RPM Motorsports

Welcome to LS1Tech.com!
Welcome to LS1Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join LS1Tech.com today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-23-2008, 10:56 AM   #1
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
stroked_408's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 111
Default Max boost for compression

how much boost can you run on 11:5:1 compression intercooled with just C16 race fuel.
__________________
99 Z28 vert: TSP 408 A3 Bad *** PTC converter, moser 9" 4.11 spool, Rhino Tuned, twin 70's sold!!! 8.20 @ 140.00 in the 1000 ft.

02 Turbo Lightning: so far 7.92 @131 on low boost in the 1000 ft. sold!!!
stroked_408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:17 AM   #2
TECH Senior Member
Garage is empty, add now
 
smokinHawk's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 48
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Columbus, ohio
Posts: 7,372
Send a message via AIM to smokinHawk
Default

why, you can run some but it wont be optimal
it will depend on how the engine is tuned how much timing ect. there are still some variables.
not sure to many have done it cause its not worth it, now if you were running acholol it would be different.
smokinHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:19 AM   #3
kp
8 Second Club
Garage is empty, add now
 
kp's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 10,857
Default

'Only' C16?

Interesting read here:

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...tio/index.html
kp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:40 AM   #4
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
stroked_408's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 6
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 111
Default

yes just c16
__________________
99 Z28 vert: TSP 408 A3 Bad *** PTC converter, moser 9" 4.11 spool, Rhino Tuned, twin 70's sold!!! 8.20 @ 140.00 in the 1000 ft.

02 Turbo Lightning: so far 7.92 @131 on low boost in the 1000 ft. sold!!!
stroked_408 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 12:59 PM   #5
FormerVendor
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia Beach,Virginia
Posts: 2,992
Default

i run as much as 40psi on 10.5 comp with torco 118 with no problems,not sure how much yuor engine can take but i think you could run 20psi on c16 with the proper tune
Shawn @ VA Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:45 PM   #6
LS1Tech Co-Founder
Garage is empty, add now
 
Pro Stock John's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 41,524
Default

Cool article link Kevin, thanks for posting that up.

Anyone want to buy an 8:1 348ci LS6 shorty?
Pro Stock John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 03:06 PM   #7
9 Second Club
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: new Jersey
Posts: 874
Default

yo shawn @ VA speed, do you have any video's of your car? That setup and horsepower is pretty insane i would love to see it go, or even just what it looks like.
__________________
99 T/A Under the knife 10.9x or bust-
85 MM mas,Ram Air,Lid,Ported Fast 92/92,Fast Rails
12 bolt 3.73's,TSP 233/239,Hooker 1.75 LT's,ORY,LM1 !Egr,!Air,160 Thermo,Yank PT4000,SVO 38LB injectors. Flt Stage 5, 4' Alum DS. BMR Trakpak, LCA's,Relo brakets,Dragbar,Panhard,Subframe's, Custom loop. QA1's in all 4. 300# fronts. ARP everything,Rings,Bearings,Lifters,11:1 compression.
Old setup -11.539@ 118.82 1.649 60'
1969 z28 - 406SBC 9.77 @ 135.8 (1.413 60')
Dragkid1917 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 03:27 PM   #8
TECH Fanatic
Garage is empty, add now
 
1INSANEGTO's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 13
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Houston TX/Worldwide
Posts: 1,449
Send a message via AIM to 1INSANEGTO Send a message via Yahoo to 1INSANEGTO
Default

why not run E85? Cheaper and will be more friendly
__________________
2009 CTSV "Houston Stock" CAI, 21" ADV.1's
2006 C6 Vette Daily Beater Stock for now...
2004 GTO 408ci,4L80E, F1R. SOLD
2007 Lexus ES330 SOLD
2007 Jeep SRT8 Heads,Cam, Intake etc SOLD
1INSANEGTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 03:47 PM   #9
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
Websy21's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,351
Send a message via MSN to Websy21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John View Post
Cool article link Kevin, thanks for posting that up.

Anyone want to buy an 8:1 348ci LS6 shorty?
Yes, that was a great article but race only of course. There is no way that it could apply to a street car on running lower octane fuel. John I wouldn't go that far of wanting to sell your engine after reading that article. I think that was a joke b/c you have a stout setup in my mind. It all depends on the setup really, but many say around 9.0 and a bit higher is a happy medium.
__________________
FOR SALE - TURBO KIT, STEREO & DS LOOP
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...240&highlight= 2001 WS6 Cam, Stall, Gears...
Websy21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 04:06 PM   #10
kp
8 Second Club
Garage is empty, add now
 
kp's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 10,857
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Websy21 View Post
Yes, that was a great article but race only of course. There is no way that it could apply to a street car on running lower octane fuel. John I wouldn't go that far of wanting to sell your engine after reading that article. I think that was a joke b/c you have a stout setup in my mind. It all depends on the setup really, but many say around 9.0 and a bit higher is a happy medium.
Of course its a race setup in the article, I would think since the OP was asking about running C16 it applies to him very well.
kp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 04:13 PM   #11
FormerVendor
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 3
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia Beach,Virginia
Posts: 2,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragkid1917 View Post
yo shawn @ VA speed, do you have any video's of your car? That setup and horsepower is pretty insane i would love to see it go, or even just what it looks like.
Here's a couple pics for you bro,no video online right now.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
Shawn @ VA Speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 04:20 PM   #12
kp
8 Second Club
Garage is empty, add now
 
kp's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 10,857
Default

Very nice, good way to fill up all that space up front on a 2nd gen
kp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 06:25 PM   #13
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
Websy21's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,351
Send a message via MSN to Websy21
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kp View Post
Of course its a race setup in the article, I would think since the OP was asking about running C16 it applies to him very well.
You are correct Kevin, I was generalizing of course and being at work my mind was somewhere else. He's definetly beyond normal and pure race car, my bad

Again though, great article none the less, I know it did that but not to that effect!
__________________
FOR SALE - TURBO KIT, STEREO & DS LOOP
http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread...240&highlight= 2001 WS6 Cam, Stall, Gears...
Websy21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 07:51 PM   #14
kp
8 Second Club
Garage is empty, add now
 
kp's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 10,857
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Websy21 View Post
You are correct Kevin, I was generalizing of course and being at work my mind was somewhere else. He's definetly beyond normal and pure race car, my bad

Again though, great article none the less, I know it did that but not to that effect!
No problem man, I thought that was interesting article..
kp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 08:45 PM   #15
LS1Tech Sponsor
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 11
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bridgewater,Ma
Posts: 14,738
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stroked_408 View Post
how much boost can you run on 11:5:1 compression intercooled with just C16 race fuel.
Depends on your Cam. We run 26lbs on 11-1 comp. with C-16 and rev to 8000rpm.
__________________


www.slowhawkperformance.com
Slowhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 03:35 PM   #16
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
CALL911's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 17
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: IN
Posts: 2,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn @ VA Speed View Post
Here's a couple pics for you bro,no video online right now.
Where are the vids? I bet that thing is psychotic to drive!

To the original poster, it depends. Are you running on the stock non forged internals? Or is your setup forged?

Again, as mentioned before, its not a good idea to run boost on a high CR engine. You can get away with doing so by raising the octane level and or intercooling it, but you're still kind of going against what ideally you want for boost, and that is a lower CR.

Even with C16, I wouldn't run more than 10#'s of boost, especially if you are still on stock internals. The amount you're going to spend on fuel alone should make you think about just getting some forged lower CR pistons.
__________________

98 Formula WS6 M6, MS3, 2.5 5.3 heads, FAST 92mm intake, 92mm TB, ARH, ORY ect. 441 RWHP
95 Z28 M6, 383, D1SC, FMIC, 24X, pump gas, meth injection 695 RWHP
CALL911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 09:16 AM   #17
LS1Tech Co-Founder
Garage is empty, add now
 
Pro Stock John's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 41,524
Default

Another general observation, but the class racers tend to find the limits of various combinations, so that's why guys in like SSO have experimented with various compression levels. I'm sure a number of those guys have found out what is too much compression for their car, they can be changing engines and components quite a bit if they need to and have the funds.
Pro Stock John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 09:42 AM   #18
TECH Enthusiast
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 536
Default

Who keeps spreading this BS. Compression is fine. Intercooling and Octane are you friends. Adding compression make the engine more thermally efficient,make more hp and tq and also makes the power adders work better.

This whole argument is retarded. I geuss Tim Lnych and Steve Petty should run low compression engines in SSO etc etc etc.

For that matter lets all hop on the lemming bus and go over the cliff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CALL911 View Post
Where are the vids? I bet that thing is psychotic to drive!

To the original poster, it depends. Are you running on the stock non forged internals? Or is your setup forged?

Again, as mentioned before, its not a good idea to run boost on a high CR engine. You can get away with doing so by raising the octane level and or intercooling it, but you're still kind of going against what ideally you want for boost, and that is a lower CR.

Even with C16, I wouldn't run more than 10#'s of boost, especially if you are still on stock internals. The amount you're going to spend on fuel alone should make you think about just getting some forged lower CR pistons.
__________________
Does DCR change if your engine runs in a vacum ?
Questions to ponder.
LS1curious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 11:04 AM   #19
kp
8 Second Club
Garage is empty, add now
 
kp's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 34
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 10,857
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1curious View Post
Who keeps spreading this BS. Compression is fine. Intercooling and Octane are you friends. Adding compression make the engine more thermally efficient,make more hp and tq and also makes the power adders work better.
Shops that sell engines dont like to see a lot of static compression, cant blame them since enough people blow their **** up at 8.5:1. Its easy enough to throw too big of a turbo or blower on to make up for it anyhow, but you pay with more parasitic loss and slower spool/higher compressor air temps. Nothing is for free

IMO if you know what you are doing I wouldnt be scared of some higher compression in a race car thats intercooled running C16.

But sooner or later you will reach a point where the increased compression wont leave enough room to pack the amount of a/f in you want or the heat it creates just makes detonation impossible to control. Lot of that depends on intake port, camshaft, chamber design and exhaust efficiency as well.

Last edited by kp; 01-25-2008 at 11:11 AM..
kp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 11:54 AM   #20
TECH Addict
Garage is empty, add now
 
CALL911's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 17
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: IN
Posts: 2,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kp View Post

IMO if you know what you are doing I wouldnt be scared of some higher compression in a race car thats intercooled running C16.

But sooner or later you will reach a point where the increased compression wont leave enough room to pack the amount of a/f in you want or the heat it creates just makes detonation impossible to control. Lot of that depends on intake port, camshaft, chamber design and exhaust efficiency as well.
This is exactly what I am talking about. If you look into doing some more research you will find that to run higher boost levels the ideal way is to lower the CR. This also allows you to run on pump gas without detonation.

If you don't believe me and refuse to do more research, start a poll in the FI forum and just ask others in here on what the ideal CR is for a high boosted motor. I garuntee the ones with experience from doing it a while or from learning the hard way from a blown engine will tell you that if you plan on high boost, you don't want a high CR.

Simply stated, high CR + high boost = detonation. You can help your chances of staying away from detonation to a certain extent by raising the octane level, but it will only go so far to help you before detonation cannot be contained.
__________________

98 Formula WS6 M6, MS3, 2.5 5.3 heads, FAST 92mm intake, 92mm TB, ARH, ORY ect. 441 RWHP
95 Z28 M6, 383, D1SC, FMIC, 24X, pump gas, meth injection 695 RWHP
CALL911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2008, 11:54 AM
LS1Tech
Pontiac Firebird




Paid Advertisement
Reply

Tags
105, 11, 408, 81, 851, boost, c16, calculate, comp, compression, detonation, forged, ls1, max, maximum, stock


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details