looking for charts of boost from idle to redline of procharger or other supercharger
02-04-2008, 11:14 PM
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looking for charts of boost from idle to redline of procharger or other supercharger looking for some info on engine speed from idle to redline of how the boost builds. please give the spec of the set up engine/mods/ pulley sizes/ supercharger model . looking for mostly procharger but will take as much info as i can get
02-05-2008, 12:37 AM
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Doesn't show you much, and this isn't on an LSX, but a 32v 4.6l SVT engine, but the same concept applies. In the case of boost, any of the centrifugals will have very similar curves.
However, don't be ignorant when looking at this graph. It doesn't show the whole story, as psi does not equal power. Of these the turbocharger would make the most power, without a doubt. The centrifugals would make the second-most max power, but in a race, would get whipped by the KB, and probably even the roots. It is quite obvious the most inferior setup would be the centrifugal blower, and this is true on most any setup. Not that it doesn't have its advantages, but as far as power and/or torque are concerned, it gets shown the door. The roots looks to be a good, and cheap solution. But in reality, you'd be down on power from the KB by quite a bit, from idle to redline. It'd make for a fun car no doubt, but you aren't going to be within a truck's length of an APS LS1.
However, don't be ignorant when looking at this graph. It doesn't show the whole story, as psi does not equal power. Of these the turbocharger would make the most power, without a doubt. The centrifugals would make the second-most max power, but in a race, would get whipped by the KB, and probably even the roots. It is quite obvious the most inferior setup would be the centrifugal blower, and this is true on most any setup. Not that it doesn't have its advantages, but as far as power and/or torque are concerned, it gets shown the door. The roots looks to be a good, and cheap solution. But in reality, you'd be down on power from the KB by quite a bit, from idle to redline. It'd make for a fun car no doubt, but you aren't going to be within a truck's length of an APS LS1.
02-05-2008, 05:14 AM
#3
Let's see some KB combinations, and what they run in the 1/4 mile?
Trans-Am's, Camaro's, GTO's and Corvette's. Bob
Here are some 2007 ProCharger combinations.
In early 2007 season action, Will Stevenson scored his first career major event win at the US Street Nationals in Bradenton, FL. Overcoming some technical difficulties, Will was the top qualifier in the Drag Radial class and held on to beat Kevin Fiscus in the finals by posting a 7.78 ET @ 181 MPH. Will drives an ’84 Camaro with a carburetor-equipped 509 big block and F-2 standard rotation ProCharger which makes 1300-1400 hp to the tire. With this lethal ProCharger combination, Will should have many more wins ahead of him. Congrats Will! In the SSO 10.5W class, Mike Yedgarian and Ray Sanchez also ran strong. Mike qualified with a 7.12 ET @ 199 MPH, but his best run came in the second round of eliminations, posting a 7.05 ET @ 201 MPH. Ray posted a 7.18 ET @ 194 MPH in qualifying.
In NOPI Series action, former NMRA SSO Champion, Jim Blair, is off and running in the Pro Outlaw RWD Class. Jim and his ’01 Mustang powered by an F-3R-131 ProCharger are new comers to the NDRA, but he’s quickly making his presence felt. In the first event of the year, held at the Texas Motorplex in Ennis, TX, Jim beat out Angel Padilla and posted a 7.22 ET @ 198 MPH for the win. At the Phoenix event held March 17-18, Blair had some traction problems in the second round as the track heated up in the Phoenix sun, but pulled out his second win over Dan Millen in the finals on Sunday posting a 7.18 ET @ 199 MPH. Proving tough to beat, stay tuned for more from Jim!
NMRA’s Spring Ford Nationals in Bradenton, FL also saw plenty of action in the Real Street Class. The top qualifier was Tim Matherly with a 9.85 ET @ 133 MPH, while Jim Breese posted a 9.89 ET, good for the second qualifying slot. After a first round bye, Matherly cruised through the ladder into the finals where he easily knocked off Paul Alfeo for the win posting a 9.80 ET @ 130 MPH. Tim, who finished second last year in the Real Street point standings after winning the championship in 2004 and 2005, has his sights set on taking home the title again this year.
At the Super Chevy Show held in Fontana, CA on March 23-25, two ProCharged racers made impressive exhibition passes that wowed the crowd. Robbie Ward ran a 7.10 ET @ 198 MPH. He drives a ’68 Camaro equipped with a SBC and an F-2 ProCharger running on methanol. Peter Ricker and his Chevy Nova powered by a 400 ci SBC and F-1R ProCharger are making 1100 hp with 22 lbs. of boost. His best run of the weekend was an 8.73 ET @ 157 MPH.
In ORSCA action, Jerry Gunter is making a run at the Limited Street Class title this season. Jerry drives a ‘69 Camaro powered by a 471 ci big block Chevy and an F-3R-139 ProCharger. His best 1/8 mile run is a 4.86 ET @ 153 MPH. Hungry for more power, Jerry is upgrading his engine to a 622 BBC on methanol and should be ready to test it out at the next event in May.
Trans-Am's, Camaro's, GTO's and Corvette's. Bob
Here are some 2007 ProCharger combinations.
In early 2007 season action, Will Stevenson scored his first career major event win at the US Street Nationals in Bradenton, FL. Overcoming some technical difficulties, Will was the top qualifier in the Drag Radial class and held on to beat Kevin Fiscus in the finals by posting a 7.78 ET @ 181 MPH. Will drives an ’84 Camaro with a carburetor-equipped 509 big block and F-2 standard rotation ProCharger which makes 1300-1400 hp to the tire. With this lethal ProCharger combination, Will should have many more wins ahead of him. Congrats Will! In the SSO 10.5W class, Mike Yedgarian and Ray Sanchez also ran strong. Mike qualified with a 7.12 ET @ 199 MPH, but his best run came in the second round of eliminations, posting a 7.05 ET @ 201 MPH. Ray posted a 7.18 ET @ 194 MPH in qualifying.
In NOPI Series action, former NMRA SSO Champion, Jim Blair, is off and running in the Pro Outlaw RWD Class. Jim and his ’01 Mustang powered by an F-3R-131 ProCharger are new comers to the NDRA, but he’s quickly making his presence felt. In the first event of the year, held at the Texas Motorplex in Ennis, TX, Jim beat out Angel Padilla and posted a 7.22 ET @ 198 MPH for the win. At the Phoenix event held March 17-18, Blair had some traction problems in the second round as the track heated up in the Phoenix sun, but pulled out his second win over Dan Millen in the finals on Sunday posting a 7.18 ET @ 199 MPH. Proving tough to beat, stay tuned for more from Jim!
NMRA’s Spring Ford Nationals in Bradenton, FL also saw plenty of action in the Real Street Class. The top qualifier was Tim Matherly with a 9.85 ET @ 133 MPH, while Jim Breese posted a 9.89 ET, good for the second qualifying slot. After a first round bye, Matherly cruised through the ladder into the finals where he easily knocked off Paul Alfeo for the win posting a 9.80 ET @ 130 MPH. Tim, who finished second last year in the Real Street point standings after winning the championship in 2004 and 2005, has his sights set on taking home the title again this year.
At the Super Chevy Show held in Fontana, CA on March 23-25, two ProCharged racers made impressive exhibition passes that wowed the crowd. Robbie Ward ran a 7.10 ET @ 198 MPH. He drives a ’68 Camaro equipped with a SBC and an F-2 ProCharger running on methanol. Peter Ricker and his Chevy Nova powered by a 400 ci SBC and F-1R ProCharger are making 1100 hp with 22 lbs. of boost. His best run of the weekend was an 8.73 ET @ 157 MPH.
In ORSCA action, Jerry Gunter is making a run at the Limited Street Class title this season. Jerry drives a ‘69 Camaro powered by a 471 ci big block Chevy and an F-3R-139 ProCharger. His best 1/8 mile run is a 4.86 ET @ 153 MPH. Hungry for more power, Jerry is upgrading his engine to a 622 BBC on methanol and should be ready to test it out at the next event in May.
Last edited by Exotic Performance Plus; 02-05-2008 at 05:21 AM.
02-05-2008, 05:26 AM
#4
This is from an internally stock and heavy 2005 GTO. Here is a link to the car.
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...Car.php?car=46
This car would be faster with an automatic and a higher stall converter, but it is a six speed and he drives it to the track. Bob
02-05-2008, 09:36 AM
#7
Not from an idle (2500 rpm 2-step, 3000rpm with the D1SC/3.7) but here is what I get from the datalogger with different blowers/pulleys. My converter flashes to 5500rpm so thats why you see a little weirdness there.
IMO centrifugal superchargers are very well suited for drag racing with a nice linear power curve, thats pretty well proven..
IMO centrifugal superchargers are very well suited for drag racing with a nice linear power curve, thats pretty well proven..
Last edited by kp; 12-12-2008 at 12:05 PM.
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02-05-2008, 09:52 AM
#8
02-05-2008, 10:26 AM
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I believe what SLowhawk is saying is this (and correct me if i am wrong)....
YOu set the procharger to achieve a larger boost then you are going for, lets say if you only want 10lbs of boost you set it at 14lbs or so. You set the motor up to release pressure once 10lbs is reached, or you restrict the amount of air the blower can push to 10lbs at max. This has the effect of shifting the boost graph to the left, in effect causing you to get a higher boost sooner.
Take that graph. Now lets say it the pink line is maxing at 15lbs of boost. You only want 10lbs of boost on your motor, but if you do so, you will have less boost at 3k RPM's then if you were shooting for 15lbs. So you have the supercharger pumping out 15lbs, but release any pressure above 10lbs of boost. This way your boost chart will look like the blue line, only it goes flat at 10lbs and stays there. You now have more boost at 3000RPMS then you would if you had it set up traditionally maxing at 10lbs.
You get me?
YOu set the procharger to achieve a larger boost then you are going for, lets say if you only want 10lbs of boost you set it at 14lbs or so. You set the motor up to release pressure once 10lbs is reached, or you restrict the amount of air the blower can push to 10lbs at max. This has the effect of shifting the boost graph to the left, in effect causing you to get a higher boost sooner.
Take that graph. Now lets say it the pink line is maxing at 15lbs of boost. You only want 10lbs of boost on your motor, but if you do so, you will have less boost at 3k RPM's then if you were shooting for 15lbs. So you have the supercharger pumping out 15lbs, but release any pressure above 10lbs of boost. This way your boost chart will look like the blue line, only it goes flat at 10lbs and stays there. You now have more boost at 3000RPMS then you would if you had it set up traditionally maxing at 10lbs.
You get me?
02-05-2008, 03:24 PM
#11
Take that graph. Now lets say it the pink line is maxing at 15lbs of boost. You only want 10lbs of boost on your motor, but if you do so, you will have less boost at 3k RPM's then if you were shooting for 15lbs. So you have the supercharger pumping out 15lbs, but release any pressure above 10lbs of boost. This way your boost chart will look like the blue line, only it goes flat at 10lbs and stays there. You now have more boost at 3000RPMS then you would if you had it set up traditionally maxing at 10lbs.
You get me?
You get me?
If I had the time I would do the excel charts with the F1A maxed out (7.25/3.7 @ 7000rpm) with a 3" ID plate and a 2" ID plate.
All I will say is the car ran better unrestricted with the 7.25/4" pulley then either of those plates and the 7.25/3.7. Its an OK thing to do if you want to have a 'street' and 'race' setup thats easy to change between but I havent found any advantage to spinning the blower harder and restricting the inlet. Granted other blower models/brands may respond different but it doesnt work with an F1A..
02-06-2008, 01:41 AM
#12
Well in theory, in actual practice I have found if you restrict the intake the boost goes down all around the usable RPM range.
If I had the time I would do the excel charts with the F1A maxed out (7.25/3.7 @ 7000rpm) with a 3" ID plate and a 2" ID plate.
All I will say is the car ran better unrestricted with the 7.25/4" pulley then either of those plates and the 7.25/3.7. Its an OK thing to do if you want to have a 'street' and 'race' setup thats easy to change between but I havent found any advantage to spinning the blower harder and restricting the inlet. Granted other blower models/brands may respond different but it doesnt work with an F1A..
If I had the time I would do the excel charts with the F1A maxed out (7.25/3.7 @ 7000rpm) with a 3" ID plate and a 2" ID plate.
All I will say is the car ran better unrestricted with the 7.25/4" pulley then either of those plates and the 7.25/3.7. Its an OK thing to do if you want to have a 'street' and 'race' setup thats easy to change between but I havent found any advantage to spinning the blower harder and restricting the inlet. Granted other blower models/brands may respond different but it doesnt work with an F1A..
Chris.
02-06-2008, 02:20 AM
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Having a nitrous car I can tell you that the best combo is the most progressive combo. Go drive a KB Terminator on a street tire and you will understand how it almost has too much of an instant hit. Centrifugals are great because they build boost progressively giving your tires a chance at hooking up. And of course turbos are by far the best but they have there own issues. But you can have a well set up TT kit make power for the widest power range.
02-06-2008, 06:43 AM
#14
Having a nitrous car I can tell you that the best combo is the most progressive combo. Go drive a KB Terminator on a street tire and you will understand how it almost has too much of an instant hit. Centrifugals are great because they build boost progressively giving your tires a chance at hooking up. And of course turbos are by far the best but they have there own issues. But you can have a well set up TT kit make power for the widest power range.
Chris.
02-06-2008, 09:59 AM
#15
Na, if I want to go through all of that I'll just put a turbo on the car since the blower is about maxed out anyhow. I'm not looking to re-invent the wheel, make an adjustable boost street/strip car or dyno queen. I was just looking at the restrictor plate thing as a way to increase average power a little since it was simple enough but it didnt work for me. Have to remember my car will never see under 5500rpm WOT, and when it does its for a very short time. Then the rest is between 6300-7200rpm and there isnt a lot of boost variation in that range with the blowers I'm using.
02-06-2008, 11:58 AM
#16
A restrictor plate won't help a high revving auto when you are always at 5500-7000rpm. You use them on street cars,mostly M6 cars. I've seen gains of over 100hp/100tq in the mid ussing them while still running 10lbs of total boost. This is a trick a few shops do to make a kit look better than others and works very well.
02-06-2008, 12:24 PM
#17
A restrictor plate won't help a high revving auto when you are always at 5500-7000rpm. You use them on street cars,mostly M6 cars. I've seen gains of over 100hp/100tq in the mid ussing them while still running 10lbs of total boost. This is a trick a few shops do to make a kit look better than others and works very well.
02-06-2008, 12:33 PM
#18
A restrictor plate won't help a high revving auto when you are always at 5500-7000rpm. You use them on street cars,mostly M6 cars. I've seen gains of over 100hp/100tq in the mid ussing them while still running 10lbs of total boost. This is a trick a few shops do to make a kit look better than others and works very well.
Clever marketing perhaps but other than dyno sheets I have never seen any real world results. IMO its good for someone who doesnt want to change pulleys and street drives their car. But if restricting it enough so you can see 100 more HP at 3500rpm and kill off the top end power is whats wanted I'm sure that it can work that way..
Last edited by kp; 02-06-2008 at 12:56 PM.
02-06-2008, 03:12 PM
#19
Either way you are decreasing the efficiency of the compressor when you restrict it, not to mention higher speed = higher parasitic loss.
Clever marketing perhaps but other than dyno sheets I have never seen any real world results. IMO its good for someone who doesnt want to change pulleys and street drives their car. But if restricting it enough so you can see 100 more HP at 3500rpm and kill off the top end power is whats wanted I'm sure that it can work that way..
Clever marketing perhaps but other than dyno sheets I have never seen any real world results. IMO its good for someone who doesnt want to change pulleys and street drives their car. But if restricting it enough so you can see 100 more HP at 3500rpm and kill off the top end power is whats wanted I'm sure that it can work that way..
How do you think my stock C5 with a small P1 ran 10.7's so easilly and lasted 3 years like that on pump gas? It made 500hp.Very early and held.
It's just a trick thats makes more down low power like a roots with the topend of a centrifical.
02-06-2008, 03:31 PM
#20
9 Second Club
This is one of my dyno pulls.
3000rpm to 7000rpm, blue line. Boost red line in psi.
My boost does tend to go strange at the top end like this. The line isnt very smooth, but that could simply be a function of the logging ( every 0.1seconds )
It seems to flatline at about 17psi from 6000rpm.....
It was having issues that day though. Car felt bloody awful up top.
3000rpm to 7000rpm, blue line. Boost red line in psi.
My boost does tend to go strange at the top end like this. The line isnt very smooth, but that could simply be a function of the logging ( every 0.1seconds )
It seems to flatline at about 17psi from 6000rpm.....
It was having issues that day though. Car felt bloody awful up top.