Injectors, fuel lines and fuel pump??
12-07-2009, 05:42 PM
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Injectors, fuel lines and fuel pump?? Injectors, fuel lines and fuel pump??
These questions are specifically pertaining to the LS1 in f-bodies, specifically the 02 model year as I have a 02 f-body.
What Horse power level will stock injectors support? (28.8 lbs injectors factory spec.)
What level of horse power will the stock fuel lines and fuel rail support?
What level of horse power will the stock fuel pump support?
Also what would need upgrading to support a 400 rwhp, 450rwhp and 500rwhp level in a naturally aspirated, mainly street driven setup?
I would like to be running injectors at the recommended 80% duty cycle, not 90+%.
For fuel pumps what is the easiest after market fuel pump to install?
What is the quietest after market fuel pump?
What is the most reliable and least prone to failure after market fuel pump?
Now I don’t want answers like so and so has XXX rwhp and is still running on a stock system. Or just get HUGH injectors and it will be all good. Or get X brand fuel pump because it’s the best.
I’d like to have reasoned and logical answers, provided by experts in fuel delivery systems for the LS1.
These questions are specifically pertaining to the LS1 in f-bodies, specifically the 02 model year as I have a 02 f-body.
What Horse power level will stock injectors support? (28.8 lbs injectors factory spec.)
What level of horse power will the stock fuel lines and fuel rail support?
What level of horse power will the stock fuel pump support?
Also what would need upgrading to support a 400 rwhp, 450rwhp and 500rwhp level in a naturally aspirated, mainly street driven setup?
I would like to be running injectors at the recommended 80% duty cycle, not 90+%.
For fuel pumps what is the easiest after market fuel pump to install?
What is the quietest after market fuel pump?
What is the most reliable and least prone to failure after market fuel pump?
Now I don’t want answers like so and so has XXX rwhp and is still running on a stock system. Or just get HUGH injectors and it will be all good. Or get X brand fuel pump because it’s the best.
I’d like to have reasoned and logical answers, provided by experts in fuel delivery systems for the LS1.
12-07-2009, 05:57 PM
#2
https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-i...8-max-out.html
Call Jon at FIC in this link, he will help you out with the injectors.
Fuel pump, rails and lines should be fine for your goals.
Call Jon at FIC in this link, he will help you out with the injectors.
Fuel pump, rails and lines should be fine for your goals.
12-08-2009, 12:35 PM
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So do the experts agree that all that needs to be changed to support a 500 rwhp level of performance in a LS1 f-body is upgraded injectors??
So this means that the stock fuel lines and rail, along with the stock fuel pump are not going to starve the car of fuel at 500 rwhp.
This is assuming that the car is naturally aspirated, full bolt-ons, heads and cam setup.
I would also assume that if the stock setup is sufficient to support 500 rwhp that it would be more than enough for 400 rwhp and 450 rwhp levels of performance.
From searching this topic it seems that it has been beat to death already, but I can’t seem to find any conclusive or general rule of thumb data on when and what parts of the fueling system should be upgraded.
And the data that I have been able to find is scattered to hell and gone. I’ve got to piece together so many different threads, it makes it hard to understand.
Along with all the mis-information or comments by someone that has no idea about said topic.
It seems to me that all this data should be collated (brought together) and put in one thread and made a “sticky”. So that these questions don’t get asked every other day and the people with this knowledge don’t have to attempt to explain it to us troglodytes (cave dwellers) all the time.
Because I’m sure by this point they are extremely frustrated from having the same question asked over and over again and having to say the same thing over and over again.
So this means that the stock fuel lines and rail, along with the stock fuel pump are not going to starve the car of fuel at 500 rwhp.
This is assuming that the car is naturally aspirated, full bolt-ons, heads and cam setup.
I would also assume that if the stock setup is sufficient to support 500 rwhp that it would be more than enough for 400 rwhp and 450 rwhp levels of performance.
From searching this topic it seems that it has been beat to death already, but I can’t seem to find any conclusive or general rule of thumb data on when and what parts of the fueling system should be upgraded.
And the data that I have been able to find is scattered to hell and gone. I’ve got to piece together so many different threads, it makes it hard to understand.
Along with all the mis-information or comments by someone that has no idea about said topic.
It seems to me that all this data should be collated (brought together) and put in one thread and made a “sticky”. So that these questions don’t get asked every other day and the people with this knowledge don’t have to attempt to explain it to us troglodytes (cave dwellers) all the time.
Because I’m sure by this point they are extremely frustrated from having the same question asked over and over again and having to say the same thing over and over again.
12-09-2009, 07:29 PM
#4
The problem is these are questions with too many variales for 1 correct answer.
Figure .5#/hp fuel flow per flywheel HP for N/A & approx .55-.6 for nitrous/Forced induction.
Drivetrain losses are 15-22% depending on trans & converter type.
Stock pumps generally good to approx 450rwhp.
Aftermarket 255 approx 550rwhp.
Stock lines to approx 650rwhp, before factory regulator design causes problems.
Figure .5#/hp fuel flow per flywheel HP for N/A & approx .55-.6 for nitrous/Forced induction.
Drivetrain losses are 15-22% depending on trans & converter type.
Stock pumps generally good to approx 450rwhp.
Aftermarket 255 approx 550rwhp.
Stock lines to approx 650rwhp, before factory regulator design causes problems.
12-09-2009, 08:10 PM
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So what you are saying here is that at a 450rwhp level, if you account for a 22% drive line loss which equals approximately 549 flywheel HP (450 * 1.22 = 549).
You then take the 549 flywheel HP and multiply it by .5 to get your total amount of fuel that needs to pass through the injectors, which is 274.5 (549 * .5 = 274.5).
You now divide the total amount of fuel that needs to pass through the injectors 274.5 by the number of injectors 8 and you come up with 34.3125 (274.5 / 8 = 34.3125).
So the injector size that is needed to safely support 450 rwhp is approximately a 35lb injector. I’m assuming that this is at an 80% duty cycle.
Although from all the reading I have done this seems to be a somewhat small size of injector to support 450 rwhp.
Am I not taking into account that the LS1 fuel pressure is 58psi and would there for increase that actual injector flow rate. If this is so how would this calculation work on a fuel system that is at the industry standard of 43.5psi.
Am I making the calculations right? I used the higher percentage number to calculate driveline loss, just to be on the safe side.
Also at this level the stock pump should be sufficient to support this and the fuel lines and fuel rail are more than adequate.
You then take the 549 flywheel HP and multiply it by .5 to get your total amount of fuel that needs to pass through the injectors, which is 274.5 (549 * .5 = 274.5).
You now divide the total amount of fuel that needs to pass through the injectors 274.5 by the number of injectors 8 and you come up with 34.3125 (274.5 / 8 = 34.3125).
So the injector size that is needed to safely support 450 rwhp is approximately a 35lb injector. I’m assuming that this is at an 80% duty cycle.
Although from all the reading I have done this seems to be a somewhat small size of injector to support 450 rwhp.
Am I not taking into account that the LS1 fuel pressure is 58psi and would there for increase that actual injector flow rate. If this is so how would this calculation work on a fuel system that is at the industry standard of 43.5psi.
Am I making the calculations right? I used the higher percentage number to calculate driveline loss, just to be on the safe side.
Also at this level the stock pump should be sufficient to support this and the fuel lines and fuel rail are more than adequate.
12-10-2009, 06:08 PM
#6
That sizes the injector at 100% duty cycle. You likely want to add at least 20% to the size for your safety margin.
LS1 58# pressure increases flow by approx 15% over the 43# rating for your calculations.
formula is new flow = square root of (new pressure/old pressure)* original flow rate
example sqrt(58/43.5)*42lb injector = 48.4lb
LS1 58# pressure increases flow by approx 15% over the 43# rating for your calculations.
formula is new flow = square root of (new pressure/old pressure)* original flow rate
example sqrt(58/43.5)*42lb injector = 48.4lb
