E85 killing walbros... looking for factory FFV pumps...
02-22-2010, 10:28 AM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
E85 killing walbros... looking for factory FFV pumps... I have killed 2 walbro fuel pumps with E85 (both of them ran for years before, added e85, and they died in weeks). The first time I thought it was just "time" for it to go, but after the other one died afterward, I knew something was up.
I did a whole ton of research regarding aftermarket pumps and E85.. I know people here are going to yell and scream saying "omg mine has worked for years", but facts are facts.
TREperformance (quality walbro knockoffs) - Sent in my 2 dead pumps, both were confirmed by the manufacture to have been killed by alcohol contamination. TRE said that his pumps were not spec'd to run with e85 and that I am SOL.
Walbro - Did some research.. found a post on another forum stating that some person talked directly to a walbro rep, and they said specifically that they did not support anything but pump gas. TRE is a walbro dealer, and also said that the walbros are failing with E85, and that they would never sell a walbro in a E85 situation.
bosch 044 - Says in build spec PDF that they do not support or warranty it it with ethonol fuels, but there is a "clause" that says you can "get away with it" if you run a good amount of mostly pure gas through the pump a few times weekly.
Factory non ffv pumps - In many threads and discussions around the internet, I found many occations where e85 was repeatedly killing fuel pumps in older converted cars using normal 90's delphi/delco fuel pumps.
Now, the area where I can find almost no information is the flow rates, model numbers, manufactures of flex fuel pumps found in modern flex fuel cars. Here is a list of all the GM flex fuel cars.
As you notice, there is a bunch of LSx flex stuff on there... It would be obvious that the injectors are larger, I know they are but by now much I do not know. With larger injectors, it would only be obvious that they would require a larger fuel pump... which would also suggest that it would be larger than a supercharged/turbocharged cobalt fuel pump (which I know will do up to 500whp on pump gas, and at least 350whp on e85).
I am planning on being able to junkyard these pumps, and running them in a dual configuration to support 6 80# injectors at wide open duty cycle.
Questions :
1. What is the injector size of a FFV LSx?
2. Are the part numbers on the fuel pumps different for FFV cars/trucks?
3. Has anyone tested, ran, etc, GM FFV fuel pumps.
I did a whole ton of research regarding aftermarket pumps and E85.. I know people here are going to yell and scream saying "omg mine has worked for years", but facts are facts.
TREperformance (quality walbro knockoffs) - Sent in my 2 dead pumps, both were confirmed by the manufacture to have been killed by alcohol contamination. TRE said that his pumps were not spec'd to run with e85 and that I am SOL.
Walbro - Did some research.. found a post on another forum stating that some person talked directly to a walbro rep, and they said specifically that they did not support anything but pump gas. TRE is a walbro dealer, and also said that the walbros are failing with E85, and that they would never sell a walbro in a E85 situation.
bosch 044 - Says in build spec PDF that they do not support or warranty it it with ethonol fuels, but there is a "clause" that says you can "get away with it" if you run a good amount of mostly pure gas through the pump a few times weekly.
Factory non ffv pumps - In many threads and discussions around the internet, I found many occations where e85 was repeatedly killing fuel pumps in older converted cars using normal 90's delphi/delco fuel pumps.
Now, the area where I can find almost no information is the flow rates, model numbers, manufactures of flex fuel pumps found in modern flex fuel cars. Here is a list of all the GM flex fuel cars.
Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe (all 2007 and 2008 models, some 2002–2006), Impala 2006 and later 3.5L, Monte Carlo 2006 and later 3.5L, HHR, S-10 Pickup.
I am planning on being able to junkyard these pumps, and running them in a dual configuration to support 6 80# injectors at wide open duty cycle.
Questions :
1. What is the injector size of a FFV LSx?
2. Are the part numbers on the fuel pumps different for FFV cars/trucks?
3. Has anyone tested, ran, etc, GM FFV fuel pumps.
Last edited by darkhorizon; 02-22-2010 at 10:36 AM.
02-24-2010, 07:41 AM
#3
Supposedly the added conductivity of alcohol over gasoline causes added current draw/heat buildup.
Also, the insulation used in these motors may not endure the long term exposure to the higher concentration of alcohol.
As for Walbro pumps, I've had good luck with them even though they are not rated for use w/ E85.
Also, the insulation used in these motors may not endure the long term exposure to the higher concentration of alcohol.
As for Walbro pumps, I've had good luck with them even though they are not rated for use w/ E85.
02-24-2010, 04:38 PM
#5
i bet this knock off company jumped right off the boat soon as you said e85.. as in looking for any dumb reason they could dig up to not warranty the knock offs.
my feeling is that REAL walbros would do significantly better. i have no direct experience but hey.. we are allready using 10% ethanol so its really only another 75% we are talking about
my feeling is that REAL walbros would do significantly better. i have no direct experience but hey.. we are allready using 10% ethanol so its really only another 75% we are talking about
02-24-2010, 05:30 PM
#6
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i bet this knock off company jumped right off the boat soon as you said e85.. as in looking for any dumb reason they could dig up to not warranty the knock offs.
my feeling is that REAL walbros would do significantly better. i have no direct experience but hey.. we are allready using 10% ethanol so its really only another 75% we are talking about
my feeling is that REAL walbros would do significantly better. i have no direct experience but hey.. we are allready using 10% ethanol so its really only another 75% we are talking about
02-24-2010, 05:49 PM
#7
Quality & knockoff do not seem to belong in the same sentence.
I hope the F150 pump you bought was from a dealer & not the local autoparts store.
I do not sell anything other than Genuine Walbro & more specifically only a few select model numbers that are proven to hold up.
Good luck with your E85 buildup.
I hope the F150 pump you bought was from a dealer & not the local autoparts store.
I do not sell anything other than Genuine Walbro & more specifically only a few select model numbers that are proven to hold up.
Good luck with your E85 buildup.
Trending Topics
02-25-2010, 08:26 AM
#8
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quality & knockoff do not seem to belong in the same sentence.
I hope the F150 pump you bought was from a dealer & not the local autoparts store.
I do not sell anything other than Genuine Walbro & more specifically only a few select model numbers that are proven to hold up.
Good luck with your E85 buildup.
I hope the F150 pump you bought was from a dealer & not the local autoparts store.
I do not sell anything other than Genuine Walbro & more specifically only a few select model numbers that are proven to hold up.
Good luck with your E85 buildup.
I am going to try to hold out with a single walbro and a boostapump on my other turbo car... I have not really decided the fuel I will run in that.. will be a tossup between Q and E85, obviously depends on how much I feel like spending on it.
Last edited by darkhorizon; 03-10-2010 at 09:49 AM.
02-25-2010, 02:09 PM
#10
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I already have support for dual pumps, I just need to install them. Its just a matter of cost vs reward, and if I can get the job done on junkyard OEM, I would much rather do that over a unreliable (in any situation) walbro pump.
I have not heard of many OEM's killing pumps in the first 10k miles before.
I have not heard of many OEM's killing pumps in the first 10k miles before.
02-25-2010, 04:24 PM
#11
maxing out 60# injectors on a single walbro (or knock off) indicates a bad pump (or regulator)
the injectors are not getting enough fuel to them (because of low pressure or volume) and are staying open longer trying to achieve target AFR
02-26-2010, 06:24 AM
#12
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
sorry man but you got that backwards.
maxing out 60# injectors on a single walbro (or knock off) indicates a bad pump (or regulator)
the injectors are not getting enough fuel to them (because of low pressure or volume) and are staying open longer trying to achieve target AFR
maxing out 60# injectors on a single walbro (or knock off) indicates a bad pump (or regulator)
the injectors are not getting enough fuel to them (because of low pressure or volume) and are staying open longer trying to achieve target AFR
The car I did this in has a digital fuel pressure gauge hooked directly to my HPT... Fuel pressure remained steady the whole time my injectors bounced around 19/20IPW.
02-26-2010, 08:44 AM
#15
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
02-26-2010, 02:09 PM
#16
It would be best to base remarks off of your actual experiences, rather than condemning a product based off of heresay.
There are quite a few knowledgable people that responded to this post trying to help you, & many more with favorable results using Walbro pumps.
There are quite a few knowledgable people that responded to this post trying to help you, & many more with favorable results using Walbro pumps.
03-10-2010, 09:50 AM
#17
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
F150 pump was junk... Turns out it wasnt made by delphi. Just tossed it in the trash when it was too big to even fit in the tank.
04-20-2010, 06:26 PM
#18
Query Besides your pumps being of the off brand nature perhaps your bad luck can be attributed to how often you were running E85. Some drivers only run E85 on the strip and run E10 for regular driving which would explain their better fortune.
Is your car a daily driver? How much would you say you were you filling up on E85 as compared to E10?
Is your car a daily driver? How much would you say you were you filling up on E85 as compared to E10?
