Am I out of injector?
03-05-2012, 09:48 AM
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Am I out of injector? so i found out with my setup I am still running stock fuel injectos. they are 28lb ls6 injectors. car was tuned with these and runs fantastic. i have a few friends that are very concerned that I am beyone maxing out my injectors and am going to hurt my motor. i dont understand as it has been this way for 3 years with no problems. they suggested going to 42lb injectors. I am looking to upgrade when I do different heads and intake manifold as I dont want to have to keep doing a retune after each different parts are installed. i dont hve tuning info on the car, as it was done in Kentucky at Bluecat tuning which from everything i have read is a excellent shop. I just posted up on KYhorsepower to try to get ahold of Phillip so I can get tune specifics. Just want to get peoples opinions.
03-05-2012, 10:20 AM
#2
What you need to do is find out if your friends are right. Just take it out on the highway and let it rip. Keep it wide open for a while in whatever gear gets the RPM around 5,500. Then pull over and pull a few plugs and see what they look like. Look at the shell, not the center electrode as you're not looking at plug temperature (yet) you just want to see what the combustion chamber looks like.
A wide band O2 sensor would make it easier.
That's about as good as I can do with no car information.
Al 95 Z28
A wide band O2 sensor would make it easier.
That's about as good as I can do with no car information.
Al 95 Z28
03-05-2012, 10:38 AM
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Seems like a lot of cam for 28s, but three years is a long time; I don't think I'd panic, but I'd suggest some junkyard GM 42s out of a supercharged Buick / Pontiac / Chevy 3800 6cyl wreck.
C
C
03-05-2012, 10:58 AM
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OK some confusing information here. You say these are stock injectors then you say they are LS6 injectors. Not familiar with what changes happened in what year to the LS1 so I can't speak to whether an LS1 ever came with an LS6 injector. I assume so from your statement. The LS6 injectors were rates at 28.6 @58PSI. So theoretically at 90% duty cycle your motor should be able to produce around 475 crank HP. Or say 415RWHP.
That's a pretty big cam in there with pretty good overlap. I would hazard to guess that you're probably fine with what you have in there. And remember most folks tell you that you should always go to only 80% duty cycle on the injectors while I quoted 90%. The reason I went that high is due to the fact that I've been there and have run at 90% without issues for years.
Now I assume you had the car dyno tuned? If so get the graph and look at your RWHP. It should also have a A/F ratio number in there also. If you don't have dyno information then I recommend you get a dyno reading. Reading the plugs will work but when I've seen it done it's fresh set of plugs, make a run, shut it off right after the lights, coast to a stop after the turn off and have it towed back to the paddock to pull the plugs and read them.
For $190 bucks you can buy a wideband but you'll have to get a bung welded on to your exhaust. For 100 bucks you should be able to get a dyno graph done on your car with ther WB data on it from a full service speed shop.
That's a pretty big cam in there with pretty good overlap. I would hazard to guess that you're probably fine with what you have in there. And remember most folks tell you that you should always go to only 80% duty cycle on the injectors while I quoted 90%. The reason I went that high is due to the fact that I've been there and have run at 90% without issues for years.
Now I assume you had the car dyno tuned? If so get the graph and look at your RWHP. It should also have a A/F ratio number in there also. If you don't have dyno information then I recommend you get a dyno reading. Reading the plugs will work but when I've seen it done it's fresh set of plugs, make a run, shut it off right after the lights, coast to a stop after the turn off and have it towed back to the paddock to pull the plugs and read them.
For $190 bucks you can buy a wideband but you'll have to get a bung welded on to your exhaust. For 100 bucks you should be able to get a dyno graph done on your car with ther WB data on it from a full service speed shop.
03-05-2012, 12:14 PM
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OK some confusing information here. You say these are stock injectors then you say they are LS6 injectors. Not familiar with what changes happened in what year to the LS1 so I can't speak to whether an LS1 ever came with an LS6 injector. I assume so from your statement. The LS6 injectors were rates at 28.6 @58PSI. So theoretically at 90% duty cycle your motor should be able to produce around 475 crank HP. Or say 415RWHP.
That's a pretty big cam in there with pretty good overlap. I would hazard to guess that you're probably fine with what you have in there. And remember most folks tell you that you should always go to only 80% duty cycle on the injectors while I quoted 90%. The reason I went that high is due to the fact that I've been there and have run at 90% without issues for years.
Now I assume you had the car dyno tuned? If so get the graph and look at your RWHP. It should also have a A/F ratio number in there also. If you don't have dyno information then I recommend you get a dyno reading. Reading the plugs will work but when I've seen it done it's fresh set of plugs, make a run, shut it off right after the lights, coast to a stop after the turn off and have it towed back to the paddock to pull the plugs and read them.
For $190 bucks you can buy a wideband but you'll have to get a bung welded on to your exhaust. For 100 bucks you should be able to get a dyno graph done on your car with ther WB data on it from a full service speed shop.
That's a pretty big cam in there with pretty good overlap. I would hazard to guess that you're probably fine with what you have in there. And remember most folks tell you that you should always go to only 80% duty cycle on the injectors while I quoted 90%. The reason I went that high is due to the fact that I've been there and have run at 90% without issues for years.
Now I assume you had the car dyno tuned? If so get the graph and look at your RWHP. It should also have a A/F ratio number in there also. If you don't have dyno information then I recommend you get a dyno reading. Reading the plugs will work but when I've seen it done it's fresh set of plugs, make a run, shut it off right after the lights, coast to a stop after the turn off and have it towed back to the paddock to pull the plugs and read them.
For $190 bucks you can buy a wideband but you'll have to get a bung welded on to your exhaust. For 100 bucks you should be able to get a dyno graph done on your car with ther WB data on it from a full service speed shop.
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03-06-2012, 03:27 PM
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so i found out with my setup I am still running stock fuel injectos. they are 28lb ls6 injectors. car was tuned with these and runs fantastic. i have a few friends that are very concerned that I am beyone maxing out my injectors and am going to hurt my motor. i dont understand as it has been this way for 3 years with no problems. they suggested going to 42lb injectors. I am looking to upgrade when I do different heads and intake manifold as I dont want to have to keep doing a retune after each different parts are installed. i dont hve tuning info on the car, as it was done in Kentucky at Bluecat tuning which from everything i have read is a excellent shop. I just posted up on KYhorsepower to try to get ahold of Phillip so I can get tune specifics. Just want to get peoples opinions.
from your mods list, I would have to bet you are beyond 80%.... 42# is likely overkill for your setup...maybe 36# would be fine
03-06-2012, 05:25 PM
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well as far as my setup goes, i will be putting 5.3 stage 2.5 heads on, fast setup of some kind and most likely going to true duals. thats it for now. So i would rather have a little more injector then I need so in the future if more mods are done I wont have to buy again. Tune will take care of that.
03-08-2012, 10:02 PM
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03-09-2012, 07:46 AM
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heads cam cars - what heads?... it always depends
sure, a ls1 car swapped to a custom cam and ls6 heads, yeh that will work fine.
If you are going to start doing mods and you know you will be doing more, why not provide enough fuel for at least 15% future power, as the injectors and the fuel sizing won't care and the tune in the car won't care. You can run 42# injectors on a stock car with absolutely no idle problems or any problems of the sort.
I know you are likely just noting a point about it being doable, and there is such a thing as overkill or going overboard, but c'mon we can go around and around about this. In general, if you are looking at modifications its always good to keep things in perspective and know where you are with regards to fuel consumption and your engine.
take 26# per hour and convert it to liters per hour
your fuel pump is rated liters per hour
BAM. solution
take 36# per hour and convert to liters per hour
find a fuel pump that is above this rating
BAM. solution
03-09-2012, 09:22 AM
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cam only - i consider this a bolt in (on)
heads cam cars - what heads?... it always depends
sure, a ls1 car swapped to a custom cam and ls6 heads, yeh that will work fine.
If you are going to start doing mods and you know you will be doing more, why not provide enough fuel for at least 15% future power, as the injectors and the fuel sizing won't care and the tune in the car won't care. You can run 42# injectors on a stock car with absolutely no idle problems or any problems of the sort.
I know you are likely just noting a point about it being doable, and there is such a thing as overkill or going overboard, but c'mon we can go around and around about this. In general, if you are looking at modifications its always good to keep things in perspective and know where you are with regards to fuel consumption and your engine.
take 26# per hour and convert it to liters per hour
your fuel pump is rated liters per hour
BAM. solution
take 36# per hour and convert to liters per hour
find a fuel pump that is above this rating
BAM. solution
heads cam cars - what heads?... it always depends
sure, a ls1 car swapped to a custom cam and ls6 heads, yeh that will work fine.
If you are going to start doing mods and you know you will be doing more, why not provide enough fuel for at least 15% future power, as the injectors and the fuel sizing won't care and the tune in the car won't care. You can run 42# injectors on a stock car with absolutely no idle problems or any problems of the sort.
I know you are likely just noting a point about it being doable, and there is such a thing as overkill or going overboard, but c'mon we can go around and around about this. In general, if you are looking at modifications its always good to keep things in perspective and know where you are with regards to fuel consumption and your engine.
take 26# per hour and convert it to liters per hour
your fuel pump is rated liters per hour
BAM. solution
take 36# per hour and convert to liters per hour
find a fuel pump that is above this rating
BAM. solution
03-09-2012, 12:10 PM
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First look here: Fuel Sticky
Download UConeer conversion program.
1 Liter IS 0.2642 gallons
so 1 Liter per hour is 0.2642 gallons per hour
A Fuel pump rated 300 Liters Per Hour can handle:
300 LPH
79.26 GPH
1 gallon of gas is 6.07LB OR
1 liter of gas is 1.604LB
300 Liter ......... 1.604 LB ...... 481.2 LB
1 hr ........... x 1 liter .......... = 1 hr
(* cross multiplication, liters cancel; you are left with LB/hr)
Divide by 8 injectors
481.2/8 = 60.15 LB/hr injectors at a single 300 LPH pump
also keep in mind everything is NOT perfect and won't give you exactly what these numbers say, I'm in no way responsible if you hook this up and it doesn't keep your fuel supplied, hahaha.
it is also good to see or know the fuel pump curve for each fuel pump you use, this tells the story.
Download UConeer conversion program.
1 Liter IS 0.2642 gallons
so 1 Liter per hour is 0.2642 gallons per hour
A Fuel pump rated 300 Liters Per Hour can handle:
300 LPH
79.26 GPH
1 gallon of gas is 6.07LB OR
1 liter of gas is 1.604LB
300 Liter ......... 1.604 LB ...... 481.2 LB
1 hr ........... x 1 liter .......... = 1 hr
(* cross multiplication, liters cancel; you are left with LB/hr)
Divide by 8 injectors
481.2/8 = 60.15 LB/hr injectors at a single 300 LPH pump
also keep in mind everything is NOT perfect and won't give you exactly what these numbers say, I'm in no way responsible if you hook this up and it doesn't keep your fuel supplied, hahaha.
it is also good to see or know the fuel pump curve for each fuel pump you use, this tells the story.
03-09-2012, 09:08 PM
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so today my friend noticed my injectors were not stock. after we actually looked at them they are ford red tops? does anyone know what size these could be? i keep finding 30lb but ppl are saying they actually flow 36lbs?
Last edited by mikh338; 03-09-2012 at 09:16 PM.
03-12-2012, 11:29 AM
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****IF they are 30 LB/hr, then they are rated 30LB/hr @ 43.5psi (3 bar)
our fuel pressure is 58psi (4 bar)
Sqrt(58/43.5) = 1.1547% larger value
multiply the 30LB * 1.1547 and that is your new injector value at our 58psi
which is: 34.64 LB / Hr
our fuel pressure is 58psi (4 bar)
Sqrt(58/43.5) = 1.1547% larger value
multiply the 30LB * 1.1547 and that is your new injector value at our 58psi
which is: 34.64 LB / Hr
03-14-2012, 12:08 PM
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naturally aspirated ... probably right 480~500 or so.
check out www.rceng.com and their Technical Sizing link at the left, then scroll all the way down to the bottom 520 engine HP makes it about 35LB/hr injector...so at the wheels about 490 or so
check out www.rceng.com and their Technical Sizing link at the left, then scroll all the way down to the bottom 520 engine HP makes it about 35LB/hr injector...so at the wheels about 490 or so
03-14-2012, 03:31 PM
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naturally aspirated ... probably right 480~500 or so.
check out www.rceng.com and their Technical Sizing link at the left, then scroll all the way down to the bottom 520 engine HP makes it about 35LB/hr injector...so at the wheels about 490 or so
check out www.rceng.com and their Technical Sizing link at the left, then scroll all the way down to the bottom 520 engine HP makes it about 35LB/hr injector...so at the wheels about 490 or so
