Can an F-body be converted to use E-85 fuel?
09-25-2005, 10:10 PM
#41
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Due to the recent application for license to sell E85 by one of our local gas stations, I have gained interest in E85 and its potential application to my vehicles.
Like many here, I have heard many rumors about E85. Everything from people saying you needed to change your entire fuel system to people saying you didn't have to change a thing besides computer programming. As with anything, information related to this topic seems to have some politics mixed in.
So I decided to drive 45 miles to purchase some E85 so I could conduct my experiments.
The test I have set up comprises of 4 glass jar containers, each filled with E85 fuel. The jars contain:
-stock 80's GM MPFI fuel pump
-black rubber and blue composition O-rings and a peice of the plastic baffle that is in a stock 80's GM fuel tank
-Goodyear Fuel Injection spec fuel hose
-a peice of regular steel fuel line
Phase 1 of the test is going to involve allowing these materials to soak, completely immersed in the E85 fuel for an extended time period, about a week.
Phase 2 will involve removing surviving materials from the fuel and allowed to dry in open shop air for a period of a couple of days to observe if any corrosion occurs with reaction to ambient air humidity.
Phase 3 will involve reimmersing of the materials in the fuel and heat being applied to the fuel and materials for an extended period of time. I want to see if there are any temperature-activated ill effects that might result from the normal heating and cooling cycle of the fuel system as it operates on the vehicle in the real world.
Phase 4 will be identical to Phase 2 in that after Phase 3 all materials will be allowed to dry to see if drastic temperature changes might affect the way the fuel might penetrate the materials and what might happen after the fuel evaporates.
I will keep you all posted on my results.
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I started this experiment 48 hours ago and have some results to report. The fuel in the jars that contain the new goodyear fuel inj spec fuel hose and stock fuel pump has taken on a yellow tint. The fuel in the other two jars is still as clear (no color) as fresh E85. It should be noted that the fuel pump used in the test has the stock GM rubber sleeve still on it so deductive reasoning would dictate that is the component being attacked by the E85 fuel. Also, none of the rubber items show physical signs of deterioration at this point.
Like many here, I have heard many rumors about E85. Everything from people saying you needed to change your entire fuel system to people saying you didn't have to change a thing besides computer programming. As with anything, information related to this topic seems to have some politics mixed in.
So I decided to drive 45 miles to purchase some E85 so I could conduct my experiments.
The test I have set up comprises of 4 glass jar containers, each filled with E85 fuel. The jars contain:
-stock 80's GM MPFI fuel pump
-black rubber and blue composition O-rings and a peice of the plastic baffle that is in a stock 80's GM fuel tank
-Goodyear Fuel Injection spec fuel hose
-a peice of regular steel fuel line
Phase 1 of the test is going to involve allowing these materials to soak, completely immersed in the E85 fuel for an extended time period, about a week.
Phase 2 will involve removing surviving materials from the fuel and allowed to dry in open shop air for a period of a couple of days to observe if any corrosion occurs with reaction to ambient air humidity.
Phase 3 will involve reimmersing of the materials in the fuel and heat being applied to the fuel and materials for an extended period of time. I want to see if there are any temperature-activated ill effects that might result from the normal heating and cooling cycle of the fuel system as it operates on the vehicle in the real world.
Phase 4 will be identical to Phase 2 in that after Phase 3 all materials will be allowed to dry to see if drastic temperature changes might affect the way the fuel might penetrate the materials and what might happen after the fuel evaporates.
I will keep you all posted on my results.
---------------------------------------------
I started this experiment 48 hours ago and have some results to report. The fuel in the jars that contain the new goodyear fuel inj spec fuel hose and stock fuel pump has taken on a yellow tint. The fuel in the other two jars is still as clear (no color) as fresh E85. It should be noted that the fuel pump used in the test has the stock GM rubber sleeve still on it so deductive reasoning would dictate that is the component being attacked by the E85 fuel. Also, none of the rubber items show physical signs of deterioration at this point.
09-26-2005, 07:35 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by Sinister Performance
The test I have set up comprises of 4 glass jar containers, each filled with E85 fuel. The jars contain...
Another thought, sometime during the late 80s/early 90s (i think) vehicles were starting to be designed with 10% ethanol in mind. I believe your 1980 fuel pump may pre-date this period, and thus give inaccurate results(unless you want to know E85 effects on 80s specific materials.)
09-26-2005, 07:44 PM
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So if rubber is a no no with this **** then i couldnt use the 8an lines i just put on the car that are braided SS with rubber inside. Damn. Not that there is any E85 stations around my but the thought is nice! GL
John
John
09-27-2005, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by D_Run
I run my car on 50% E85 without any problems, Just had to increase fuel with Hptuners.... Now i am testing a little more agressive timing.
09-27-2005, 06:00 PM
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09-28-2005, 12:51 AM
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Approx 4 days have passed since I started this experiment. Earlier today I removed the covers from the 4 jars. Within 1 hour of removing the covers I noticed the fuel in the jars that contained the rubber lines and fuel pump became cloudy. It was quite humid today so it appears humidity is a factor in how the E85 reacts with rubber. So far no change to the O-rings, plastic baffle, or steel fuel line.
09-28-2005, 02:28 AM
#52
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Originally Posted by Sinister Performance
Approx 4 days have passed since I started this experiment. Earlier today I removed the covers from the 4 jars. Within 1 hour of removing the covers I noticed the fuel in the jars that contained the rubber lines and fuel pump became cloudy. It was quite humid today so it appears humidity is a factor in how the E85 reacts with rubber. So far no change to the O-rings, plastic baffle, or steel fuel line.
09-28-2005, 11:09 PM
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Today when I checked on the experiment, I noticed most of the fuel had evaporated. By this evening, all of the fuel was gone.
The empty jars now smell like skunky beer, which I might add smells better than fresh E85, in my opinion. Anyway, the rubber line doesn't not appear to be physically harmed by the E85, but as my earlier findings revealed the fuel did take on some discoloration so something from the rubber lines had broken down in the E85. The rubber sleeve on the OEM fuel pump fell right off of the pump and appears to have been affected by the E85. So far no signs of any kind of harm to the steel line and O-rings.
I am going to let these items completely dry out to see if anything happens before I move on to the next step of the experiment.
The empty jars now smell like skunky beer, which I might add smells better than fresh E85, in my opinion. Anyway, the rubber line doesn't not appear to be physically harmed by the E85, but as my earlier findings revealed the fuel did take on some discoloration so something from the rubber lines had broken down in the E85. The rubber sleeve on the OEM fuel pump fell right off of the pump and appears to have been affected by the E85. So far no signs of any kind of harm to the steel line and O-rings.
I am going to let these items completely dry out to see if anything happens before I move on to the next step of the experiment.
09-30-2005, 12:37 AM
#56
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Originally Posted by GuitsBoy
Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it sucks the moisture right out of the air. This might have something to do with the cloudiness in your experiments.
09-30-2005, 07:57 AM
#57
Originally Posted by Sinister Performance
I thought that too, however the fuel in the jars containing the steel line and O-rings did not get near as cloudy as the jars containing the fuel pump and hoses.
10-22-2005, 06:44 AM
#59
E85 in Fort Wayne is currently being sold at a station on Coldwater Rd, at the corner of Wallen Rd. I've been thinking of experimenting with it myself with a vehicle on my Mustang Chassis Dyno. It's approx 30 to 40 cheaper than 87 octane fuel right now. Bob
10-24-2005, 11:21 AM
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How is E85 with emmisions? I'm curious as to how well a car would smog in california if it was properly tuned running it. What are its byproducts of combustion?