Go Back   LS1TECH > LS1-LS2-LS3-LS6-LS7 PERFORMANCE > Fueling & Injection
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Register iTraderTimeslips Photos Members Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Used CarsVendor Directory
Search

Fueling & Injection
Fuel Pumps | Injectors | Rails | Regulators | Tanks
Sponsored by
Aeromotive Inc

Welcome to LS1Tech.com!
Welcome to LS1Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, join LS1Tech.com today!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-14-2005, 06:29 PM   #1
TECH Fanatic
Garage is empty, add now
 
destroyerSS's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Orange county n.y.
Posts: 1,107
Default Symptoms of a bad fuel regulator

Just trying to get some idea's what a bad pressure regulator would act like. I have a new pump, wiring is good,new injectors. Thanks
__________________
98SS M6 LME 408,AFR225'sW/manley nextek's,CM253/257 643-645 112,Crane lifters,Comp_hi-techPR,LSX90,NW90TB,JesselSS,Kook's 1 3/4-1 7/8 race headers,SVO42lb,TSP-Xpipe,TSP_85mmlid,SLP85maf,Racetronix,MTI pulley,Taylor 10.4mm,B+M ripper,4.10's,Spohn adj CM T/A & LCA re-lo brackets,Hotchkis LCA's,subframes,strut mount,panhard bar&HD sway bars,BMR panhard brace,Poly trans mount,Eibach springs,Luk Pro-Gold clutch,Ram adj M/C,Aluminum flywheel,Nitto's,Slowhawk tuned
destroyerSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2005, 06:58 PM   #2
Teching In
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3
Default

usualy they cause hard start run rich or lean check your fuel pressure i think it should be 48psi
KillerSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2005, 12:05 PM   #3
LS1Tech Premium Sponsor
Garage is empty, add now
 
Nasty N8's Avatar
 
Trader Rating: 33
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Lake in the Hills, IL
Posts: 5,173
Default

They will not hold pressure at the set point. up and down pressures as the engine is reved or leaking through the vacuum port.

Nate
__________________
Nate 847-458-4858 www.NastyPerformance.com
Nate@nastyperformance.comAlso see us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...632733?ref=sgm
Nasty Performance Billet Valve Covers Starting at $430
Nasty Performance fuel rails to fit all LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,L76,L92, FAST 90,92,102LSXR intakes and more In stock ON SALE NOW
Nasty N8 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2005, 02:48 PM   #4
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

Ok so I discovered I was running real lean at a dyno, I finally got ahold of a Fuel Pressure Gauge. Of course first step in diagnosis since with adding 5 points richen on predator had no effect at all on A/F while on dyno.
I connected gauge today and read approx 43lbs when first turning key over and it slowly dropped, I then started it up and it jumped back to 43lbs pressure, I blipped the throttle and each time it the needle would bounce down to 30lbs and it would quickly recover to 43lbs. Held throttle at about 3k and stays constant just seems to drop after the instant punch of throttle.
This sounds like the pump is ok but maybe a bad regulator?
What do you all think. and also where can I get a regulator, how much and how difficult to install. I searched some and seems like every thread has the common answer just upgrade to the Racetronix pump. Can't afford right now.
Hoping for a simpler and cheaper solution.
Car is a 99, mods in sig.
Thanks
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2005, 03:59 PM   #5
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

anyone????
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 06:55 AM   #6
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

fuel pressure should be around 58psi...maybe drop to 55 under wot.How old is the fuel filter? If you don't understand much about fuel systems i would take it to a good shop to have it tested.1st test involves blocking off the return line after the fuel filter and measuring max prssure the pump can generate with engine off...should be aprox 75 psi.If it passes that test next test would be checking the fuel pressure without starting the engine with the regulator unblocked.Turning the key on should cause the pressure to build to 55+ and stay there.If it doesn't then the regulator is most likely the trouble.I seen the stock regulator for 3 bucks on fred beans webstite.Its probably best to find a good shop to do all this testing...if you can find one...most shops today are in a rush.
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 08:08 AM   #7
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99PontTA
fuel pressure should be around 58psi...maybe drop to 55 under wot.How old is the fuel filter? If you don't understand much about fuel systems i would take it to a good shop to have it tested.1st test involves blocking off the return line after the fuel filter and measuring max prssure the pump can generate with engine off...should be aprox 75 psi.If it passes that test next test would be checking the fuel pressure without starting the engine with the regulator unblocked.Turning the key on should cause the pressure to build to 55+ and stay there.If it doesn't then the regulator is most likely the trouble.I seen the stock regulator for 3 bucks on fred beans webstite.Its probably best to find a good shop to do all this testing...if you can find one...most shops today are in a rush.
What do yo mean by with the regulator blocked? Are you referring to removing/blocking the vacuum line which simulates heavy load situation (low vacuum pressure)? I also can't afford to take to a shop, and would rather work on it myself.
thanks
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2005, 10:37 AM   #8
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAzNite
What do yo mean by with the regulator blocked? Are you referring to removing/blocking the vacuum line which simulates heavy load situation (low vacuum pressure)? I also can't afford to take to a shop, and would rather work on it myself.
thanks
there is no vacuum line on a 99 TA..is the fuel filter new?to block the regulator on a 99 ta you need to disconnect the nylon return line from the steel return line after the fuel filter and cap the steel line.PLEASE GET EXPERIANCED HELP BEFORE DOING ANY OF THIS!...
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2005, 08:35 AM   #9
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

Yes the filter is brand new. First thing I checked. I have a used pump coming in the mail and am going to put it in. The car has 83k miles on it so a new pump with 3k miles for 40 bucks isnt too bad. If if fixes it then great. I will let you know. I am going to do it myself with the help of a lot of reading. I can't be experienced without doing it myself.
thanks
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2005, 02:06 PM   #10
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99PontTA
there is no vacuum line on a 99 TA..is the fuel filter new?to block the regulator on a 99 ta you need to disconnect the nylon return line from the steel return line after the fuel filter and cap the steel line.PLEASE GET EXPERIANCED HELP BEFORE DOING ANY OF THIS!...
Question:
Since there is no vacuum line, is the regulator part of the pump unit in the tank itself. In other words if the regulator is bad, you will need to remove the tank and replace the pump anyways correct?
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2005, 02:37 PM   #11
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

the regulator is in the tank...it a cheapo 5 dollar part........its not really part of the pump...but its mounted with it.
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2005, 03:38 PM   #12
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99PontTA
the regulator is in the tank...it a cheapo 5 dollar part........its not really part of the pump...but its mounted with it.
Excellent. I think I am going to replace it when I put the new pump in. I got a used factory pump from an 02 for 40 bucks, might as well slap a new regulator on as well. Do you happen to know the part number?
It is strange, I hear pump, regulator and sending unit.
Forgive my ignorance on this but Isnt the sending unit the pump?
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2005, 06:51 PM   #13
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

before you dig into this i would test the fuel system using a pressure gauge.A bad pres regulator could cause low fuel pressure but until you test everything its hard to say whats wrong.What are your troubles?
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2005, 08:18 AM   #14
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

I tested with a fuel pressure gauge. Earlier post in this thread:
Ok so I discovered I was running real lean at a dyno, I finally got ahold of a Fuel Pressure Gauge. Of course first step in diagnosis since with adding 5 points richen on predator had no effect at all on A/F while on dyno.
I connected gauge today and read approx 43lbs when first turning key over and it slowly dropped, I then started it up and it jumped back to 43lbs pressure, I blipped the throttle and each time it the needle would bounce down to 30lbs and it would quickly recover to 43lbs. Held throttle at about 3k and stays constant just seems to drop after the instant punch of throttle.
This sounds like the pump is ok but maybe a bad regulator?
What do you all think. and also where can I get a regulator, how much and how difficult to install. I searched some and seems like every thread has the common answer just upgrade to the Racetronix pump. Can't afford right now.
Symptoms are some pinging at high RPM's, horrible gas mileage and loss of prolly 40 horse. Dyno'd at 300 hp, and 300tq, with dyno showing lean conditions even at idle.
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2005, 08:34 AM   #15
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

fuel pressure should be 55 lb +...maybe a couple things.To test the fuel pump output you need to take it to a pro OR be prepared to get messy with dangerous gasoline.1st test is a pump pressure oiutput test...this involves blocking the return off,then running the pump with the engine off.This will test the pump..should be 75 psi.....if it passes that test....its time for a fuel volume test...how much can the pump push through the line in 30 seconds....it should move ALOT of fuel.Next test is pressure leak down test with the regulator blocked off....should hold pressure for a very long time.If it passes that test next is the regulator...you can see by checking each part of the system you can narrow it down.
I seen the regulator at Fredbean's web site...i'm not sure if they are a sponser on this site.ONMO THINg...if you had this dynod don't they know how to diagnose fuel systems?
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2005, 08:50 AM   #16
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 99PontTA
fuel pressure should be 55 lb +...maybe a couple things.To test the fuel pump output you need to take it to a pro OR be prepared to get messy with dangerous gasoline.1st test is a pump pressure oiutput test...this involves blocking the return off,then running the pump with the engine off.This will test the pump..should be 75 psi.....if it passes that test....its time for a fuel volume test...how much can the pump push through the line in 30 seconds....it should move ALOT of fuel.Next test is pressure leak down test with the regulator blocked off....should hold pressure for a very long time.If it passes that test next is the regulator...you can see by checking each part of the system you can narrow it down.
I seen the regulator at Fredbean's web site...i'm not sure if they are a sponser on this site.ONMO THINg...if you had this dynod don't they know how to diagnose fuel systems?
I dyno'd on a Sat. and all the mechanics tool boxes were locked and didnt have a pressure gauge handy.
Also that seems to be a lot of potential cost as opposed to getting a 40 fuel pump and 15 dollar regulator and doing the install myself. If it still is a problem after that I would have spent less than 75 bucks and then can take to a shop to have it tested. Not to mention I don't really trust anyone very easily to work on my car.
Once took in for a pinion seal replacment, they never tightened the cover bolts and after a 2000 mile road trip, bang goes the rear.
Happened across country so got the complete run around from the shop, ended up costing me 800 bucks.
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2005, 08:58 AM   #17
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkAzNite
I dyno'd on a Sat. and all the mechanics tool boxes were locked and didnt have a pressure gauge handy.
Also that seems to be a lot of potential cost as opposed to getting a 40 fuel pump and 15 dollar regulator and doing the install myself. If it still is a problem after that I would have spent less than 75 bucks and then can take to a shop to have it tested. Not to mention I don't really trust anyone very easily to work on my car.
Once took in for a pinion seal replacment, they never tightened the cover bolts and after a 2000 mile road trip, bang goes the rear.
Happened across country so got the complete run around from the shop, ended up costing me 800 bucks.
i hear that.....well do yer testing and at least you will know exactly whats going on.I would also do the trap door to change the pump-regulator.I would stay with the stock pieces too.So many people upgrade to other brand pumps then end up with all kinds of werido troubles.I know where you can buy just the pump replacement kit..its around 75 bucks new.The regulator you need to get from a dealer.Be sure before you test that the fuel filter is NEW.
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2005, 09:02 AM   #18
On The Tree
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 2
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Austin Texas
Posts: 108
Default

Thanks.
I purchased a used pump with 2k miles on it from an 02 off a forum member, I saw this write up on the trap door.
http://www.taekwondoplus.org/z28/fuelpump.html
It is the best one I have found.
I replaced the fuel filter less than 1k miles ago. I guess I will grab a regulator and start on it next week sometime if it warms up any here in Texas.
Thanks for your help.
__________________
'99 Black T/A WS6------Sold..now in an 04 GTO
Free: EGR Mod, !Baffles,
!CAGS, !Drill Mod, PCV Mod, Conv. tubing, !Moldings, perch mod
Performance: LS1 Hotcam, LS6 Valve Springs,Manley Chromoly pushrods,Predator, BMR STB, BMR SFC's, Moser 12-bolt 33 spline axles with Detroit True Trac w/3.73's, Flowmaster Crapback,SLP Bellows,SLP Short Throw,
160 Therm,NGKTR6's,ThunderVolts,Throttlebody Bypass,Spec Stage III Carbon, Whisper lid, K&N, Predator Tune
DarkAzNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2005, 09:12 AM   #19
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

that is not for a 99 up fbody...thats for a 98 maybe....the 99 up uses a plastic fuel tank and the trap door you nned to make is more to the rear of the car....be very careful cutting into that area...i would use a hand nibbler...if i can find the 99 up instructions i'll post a link.
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2005, 10:52 AM   #20
Banned
Garage is empty, add now
 
Trader Rating: 0
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Pocono Pa
Posts: 246
Default

http://community.webshots.com/album/70099731hGvNzx 99 up
99PontTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2005, 10:52 AM
LS1Tech
Pontiac Firebird




Paid Advertisement
Reply

Tags
bad, dangerous, diagnose, faulty, filter, fuel, furl, gauge, injector, ls1, pressure, regulator, signs, symptom, symptoms


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.5.2
Advertising - Terms of Service - Privacy Statement - JOBS
Emails & Contact Details