what pinion angle with S60? vibration with 1.5 degree - LS1TECH

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what pinion angle with S60? vibration with 1.5 degree

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Old 04-21-2010, 09:04 AM   #1
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Default what pinion angle with S60? vibration with 1.5 degree

I just put and s60 in my car with 4.10s and a steel spool. Now Im trying to narrow down the vibration between drivshaft and pinion angle. The driveshaft was made by a well known driveshaft shop and have used them before. I set the pinion angle at 1.5 degrees and get a vibration at about 60mph and up. Im just trying to narrow down diveshaft or pinion angle, I know the spool probably doesnt help it since your not supposed to run them on the street. Let me know what pinion angle your running with your s60.
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:06 PM   #2
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what do you use for suspension mounts( rear suspension)? rubber,poly, solid, 50/50 ? it all makes a difference. 1.5 is more solid setup, try -2 degrees and see if it improves. make note of when it starts to vibrate.
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:31 PM   #3
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I'm running -1 degrees on mine. UMI TA and LCA's. No vibration issues at all.
Does the driveshaft length seem right? A spool should have nothing to do with it if everything in the rear is assembled correctly.
You could try to clamp a small amount of weight to the driveshaft with hose clamps and see if that changes anything. That would point to a balance problem.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:07 PM   #4
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-2 here. no problem at all. All spohn bushing suspension.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:08 PM   #5
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Are you measuring your pinion angle correctly? I was not, until I did this... check the thread out

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/gears-...ctly-pics.html

Even after this, I still had some vibration due to unbalanced driveshaft. Even now there is still some noise, it's just the way the chassis mounted torque arm is.
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Old 04-21-2010, 08:49 PM   #6
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Check your u-joints after they've been run a while. Its not uncommon when installing them to gall the bearing land and create a little tight spot that can lead to vibration. Jr level mistake that can happen at top level shops.

Pinion angle in my experience doesnt affect NVH ( noise, vibration, harshness ) so long as all the other parts supporting the drivetrain are tip top

I run -4 on my street car with no issues at all
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:05 PM   #7
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Im running poly bushing on my LCAs panhard and torque arm. Ill try a negative like some of you guys are running as well.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:30 PM   #8
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I'm running 2 degrees on mine, no vibrations, had it up to 120 on the freeway.

When I first set it up I was at 6 degrees (did bad math) and the car shook like an earthquake after 40mph.
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Old 04-28-2010, 03:57 PM   #9
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I set it at 0 degrees and still have the same vibration. Sent the driveshaft out to the shop that made it and it came back balanced the same way. I talked to the manager and he said that it came out near perfect and it didnt need any weight. I know it doesnt have to do with the tires because I balanced them out, but they are mickey thompson 275/40/17s. Im really running out of ideas since this was a brand new rear from strange engineering and so was the driveshaft. It almost feels like it vibrates more in 6th gear then in 5th gear if that makes any sense.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:01 PM   #10
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Easiest thing to try is find a friend with a car that you can borrow a set of wheels off and try it. In my experience most times a mystery vibration is in the tires its not always the "balance" of the tire that can cause it. Perhaps a slightly shifted belt or the tires index is out of whack etc. These dont always show up when "balancing" your wheels but they sure will shake the crap out of your car at speed if they are bad enough. I had a badly shifted belt years ago that I couldnt figure out. It was shifted right down the tread land so you couldnt easily spot it. The tire looked good, balanced well, but at around 40mph started to shake like hell.

Worth a shot
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:18 PM   #11
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I'm assuming you've already tried installed the DS both ways.

Cam may be on the right path... I've seen motorcycle tires do the same thing... must have been a bad batch of new tires. We had like 5 in 1 month, balance perfect but at 40+ it would shake like hell. If you watch very closely when the tire was spinning on the balancer, you could see a small shift in the belt. All those customers recieved new tires and never had a problem after that.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:34 AM   #12
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alright I'll try putting the fronts on the rear and see how it acts. I thought it could be the tires as well since they sat for awhile, but I used them with the 10 bolt as well and didnt have any shaking but I'll try it anyways.
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Old 04-29-2010, 10:40 AM   #13
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I would check the tires first as was stated. I was chasing a bad vibration last year that started around 40 mph and got progressively worse with speed. The pinion angle did not matter, within reason. Turned out my driveshaft was too short. It looked fine, but when I removed the driveshaft and measured from the face of the tail housing to the front of the rear, it was about 1.25" short. Got a new PST shaft made and all vibrations disappeared. Pinion angle did not matter with the new shaft too. Hope this helps.
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Old 04-29-2010, 12:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02BLKWS6MD View Post
alright I'll try putting the fronts on the rear and see how it acts. I thought it could be the tires as well since they sat for awhile, but I used them with the 10 bolt as well and didnt have any shaking but I'll try it anyways.
Another little trick you can try is when you pull the tires off just roll them away slowly on a flat ( like perfectly flat ) concrete surface and watch the tire for wobble. If it wobbles around or back and forth you have a shifted belt somewhere or a rim out of whack.
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:57 AM   #15
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I put a different set of wheels on and too the driveshaft out and turn it 180 degrees and still have the vibration. I know the driveshaft isnt too short, i can see about 1/2"-3/4" of the front yoke hanging out the transmission. I'm stumped, we've even called strange and did everything they said and still have the same vibration.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02BLKWS6MD View Post
I put a different set of wheels on and too the driveshaft out and turn it 180 degrees and still have the vibration. I know the driveshaft isnt too short, i can see about 1/2"-3/4" of the front yoke hanging out the transmission. I'm stumped, we've even called strange and did everything they said and still have the same vibration.
Curious, what did Strange say about this? I have a dana 60 that wont stop vibrating either, really starting to **** me off! I just put a new rear ujoint in, and now from 65 on up it vibrates really bad. UGH!
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:50 PM   #17
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if you put the rear in the air by putting jackstands under the axle, does it still vibrate? Try this with the tires still on. If it still vibrates continue tearing it down. Then try it with the tires off, but keep the rotors on with the lugnuts. Still vibrating, take the brakes off. Make sure you do not push the brake pedal and shoot the pistons out of the calipers. At this point, you are looking at a problem with the rearend if you are sure the driveshaft is good, as you stated. There is nothing left. You have the spool, axles, and the ring and pinion. I would be sending it back if that is the case.

I have had a rearend vibrate from the rotors of all things. They were cheap generic rotors that had oversized holes, for the center and the lugs!! Got rid of them promptly, problem solved. I did not have the rotor put on perfectly centered causing the vibration.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:46 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02BLKWS6MD View Post
I put a different set of wheels on and too the driveshaft out and turn it 180 degrees and still have the vibration. I know the driveshaft isnt too short, i can see about 1/2"-3/4" of the front yoke hanging out the transmission. I'm stumped, we've even called strange and did everything they said and still have the same vibration.
Hey dude, did you ever solve your vibration problem?
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:09 PM   #19
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Im not the original poster, but I solved mine. With the bigger rear end, it doesnt sit in the car the same. So in order to even out the driveshaft angles, the nose of my rear is sitting upwards with reference to the car. Every internet jockey says you shouldnt do this, but I had to in order to cancel the ujoint angles out and make the annoying vibration go away. BTW, a speed shop here in MN is who told me to do this. Been riding this way for about 3 months now, 2000 miles, and the car hooks like hell! I seriously recomend people do this, as the ujoint angles need to be the same, but opposite, to make the vibration go away. Hope this helps.
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:20 PM   #20
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There is so much internet misinformation on this. I've even argued with some 15+ yr experienced technicians about how using the driveshaft angle method to set pinion angle was totally wrong. They dismiss it because they've done 100s of cars that way and no one ever complained. So if you do something wrong 100 times that makes it right?

So I did my own research and started with the basics. Our drive shaft is called a "Single Cardan Shaft" which has one u-joint or cardan joint at each end. To have the least vibration and power loss the driving shaft and driven shaft angles need to be parallel to each other, otherwise the u-joint's sinusoidal rotational velocities would not cancel each other out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint

The angle of the driveshaft is only concerned with the height difference between the ends of the driveshaft and has absolutely nothing to do with the angle of the tranny output shaft. For example, if the tranny is pointed down -3* and the rear end pinion is even with the tranny output shaft so the driveshaft angle is 0*. Using the driveshaft angle method the pinion angle would be set to -1.5*. But wait, this would actually give you a pinion angle of -4.5*. If you wanted a -1.5 you add the tranny angle and rear end angle together like this and end up pointing the rear UP +1.5*. Or +3.0* up for 0 pinion angle. Here's the formula I use to keep things straight.

t = tranny angle
r = rear angle
p = desired pinion angle

t + r = p
r = p - t
r = -1.5 - (-3.0)
r = 1.5

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