Possible to have Ford 9" Without Whine?
09-20-2012, 08:52 PM
#1
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Possible to have Ford 9" Without Whine? I've hesitated posting until now, but I'm about at my breaking point with this rear end, and I just want to know if it is possible to get my new 9" rear to not whine (howl) at 50+ mph?
It's essentially quiet until almost right at 50 mph, then whines loudly, ONLY when I'm 50 mph or above, barely on the gas, just maintaining my speed (which happens to be the situation most of the time for a daily driver, unfortunately). If I let off the gas, the sound goes away. Shifting into neutral, the sound goes away. If I tromp it, say in 4th or 5th at 55 mph, the sound lessens quite a bit.
Here's what I've got: New MWC Fab 9" rear with Yukon 3.89 gear, long torque arm from MWC, 3" steel PST driveshaft, MWC chromoly panhard bar, car is lowered 1.2" w/ Strano springs and Koni yellow shocks.
I've also upgraded the clutch (Monster Level 2) and had Tick Performance do their Level 2 to the T56. These were done before the rear was installed, and there was NO whine at all-smooth as stock.
I have already let a local shop install another new Yukon 3.89 gear thinking I either got a defective gear or the setup was wrong. Sound did not change AT ALL. I have also reinstalled the stock panhard bar w/ rubber bushings and no change. I have put rubber pads between where the torque arm mount mounts to the body, and again no change in the sound at all.
Should this gear set be quiet if setup properly, or is there no way to avoid this speed-specific sound? Can an "OEM" style ring and pinion eliminate this noise? Or, am I just stuck with this whine no matter which gear I get or who sets it up?
I have made a video of the sound, I'm just not sure how to post it up at this time.
It's essentially quiet until almost right at 50 mph, then whines loudly, ONLY when I'm 50 mph or above, barely on the gas, just maintaining my speed (which happens to be the situation most of the time for a daily driver, unfortunately). If I let off the gas, the sound goes away. Shifting into neutral, the sound goes away. If I tromp it, say in 4th or 5th at 55 mph, the sound lessens quite a bit.
Here's what I've got: New MWC Fab 9" rear with Yukon 3.89 gear, long torque arm from MWC, 3" steel PST driveshaft, MWC chromoly panhard bar, car is lowered 1.2" w/ Strano springs and Koni yellow shocks.
I've also upgraded the clutch (Monster Level 2) and had Tick Performance do their Level 2 to the T56. These were done before the rear was installed, and there was NO whine at all-smooth as stock.
I have already let a local shop install another new Yukon 3.89 gear thinking I either got a defective gear or the setup was wrong. Sound did not change AT ALL. I have also reinstalled the stock panhard bar w/ rubber bushings and no change. I have put rubber pads between where the torque arm mount mounts to the body, and again no change in the sound at all.
Should this gear set be quiet if setup properly, or is there no way to avoid this speed-specific sound? Can an "OEM" style ring and pinion eliminate this noise? Or, am I just stuck with this whine no matter which gear I get or who sets it up?
I have made a video of the sound, I'm just not sure how to post it up at this time.
09-20-2012, 08:58 PM
#2
sounds like they mimic'ed the specs from the other gear set... sounds like it is set up on the drive side instead of the coast side...
does it sound better or worse coasting in gear?
what gear oil are you running?
does it sound better or worse coasting in gear?
what gear oil are you running?
09-20-2012, 09:38 PM
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probably an error in setting the gear pattern... the 9 inch isnt hard to pull, yank that thing out, mark the teeth and see what pattern you get. There are a ton of examples on the internet to see what it should look like, and how to adjust it. I would also replace the pinion gear nose bearing, if it is howling under a load that could be the culprit.
09-20-2012, 10:10 PM
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I am running cheap non-synthetic Castrol 80W-90 gear oil.
probably an error in setting the gear pattern... the 9 inch isnt hard to pull, yank that thing out, mark the teeth and see what pattern you get. There are a ton of examples on the internet to see what it should look like, and how to adjust it. I would also replace the pinion gear nose bearing, if it is howling under a load that could be the culprit.
09-20-2012, 10:32 PM
#5
The pattern of the pics posted is near perfect. If you have some drive side noise then take maybe .002-.004 of pinion shim depth out and see what it sounds like.
Its as simple as removing the pinion support assy by the 5 bolts, measure the shims and re-install a set that is a few thousandths less. No bearing preload or backlash adjustment needed for this operation.
Chances are you may be able to "fine tune" the pinion depth to obtain the least amount of noise possible.
Its as simple as removing the pinion support assy by the 5 bolts, measure the shims and re-install a set that is a few thousandths less. No bearing preload or backlash adjustment needed for this operation.
Chances are you may be able to "fine tune" the pinion depth to obtain the least amount of noise possible.
09-21-2012, 06:44 PM
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After talking with the guy who set up the gears the 2nd time, he recommended I bring in the pinion/pinion support so he can adjust the bearing preload. He acted like this should reduce the "harmonics" that are going on with this rear end at 50+mph. He also said that there should be no need to adjust the pinion depth since the pattern I have should be good (I believe he said he set it using a number stamped in the gear).
I have a hard time believing this will really work, but I'm going to give it a try. I should be able to give an update Monday evening. I welcome any more suggestions in the mean time!
I have a hard time believing this will really work, but I'm going to give it a try. I should be able to give an update Monday evening. I welcome any more suggestions in the mean time!
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09-21-2012, 06:49 PM
#8
The pattern of the pics posted is near perfect. If you have some drive side noise then take maybe .002-.004 of pinion shim depth out and see what it sounds like.
Its as simple as removing the pinion support assy by the 5 bolts, measure the shims and re-install a set that is a few thousandths less. No bearing preload or backlash adjustment needed for this operation.
Chances are you may be able to "fine tune" the pinion depth to obtain the least amount of noise possible.
Its as simple as removing the pinion support assy by the 5 bolts, measure the shims and re-install a set that is a few thousandths less. No bearing preload or backlash adjustment needed for this operation.
Chances are you may be able to "fine tune" the pinion depth to obtain the least amount of noise possible.
Thanks
09-21-2012, 09:33 PM
#10
Now, Eric at mwc has spoken and said the pattern looks good...and I have no credentials to question him, he set up my gears and they are dead quiet. That said, the pattern looks too deep to me. Were it me, I would take his advice and take some shim out.
The gear marking compound at summit for $4, I think it is motive branded, is good. Spray on red brake quietner worked pretty well for me too.
The gear marking compound at summit for $4, I think it is motive branded, is good. Spray on red brake quietner worked pretty well for me too.
09-21-2012, 10:34 PM
#11
Now, Eric at mwc has spoken and said the pattern looks good...and I have no credentials to question him, he set up my gears and they are dead quiet. That said, the pattern looks too deep to me. Were it me, I would take his advice and take some shim out.
The gear marking compound at summit for $4, I think it is motive branded, is good. Spray on red brake quietner worked pretty well for me too.
The gear marking compound at summit for $4, I think it is motive branded, is good. Spray on red brake quietner worked pretty well for me too.
09-23-2012, 09:04 AM
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Sorry for all the questions, I'll definitely let you all know if what I do tomorrow makes a difference.
09-23-2012, 01:40 PM
#14
Yeah my suspension is completely stock. It has a slight whine at around 30 but pronounced whine from 50-60. And begins tapering off above 60. Only on light throttle, if you let off it stops and if accelerating it diminishes greatly. I was told its setup right and the gear pattern looked good. I'm just worried its going to let go if I run it hard. I have decided that I'm going to run it until something goes or I have the money for a s60. I still have my stock rearend with 3.42s if it goes
09-24-2012, 09:51 PM
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Well, increasing pinion bearing preload doesn't seem to have helped much, but may have slightly changed the dynamics of the sound. The whine might be 10 or 20% quieter while accelerating slightly, but now it continues to whine some even after I let off the gas, whereas before this would pretty much make it go away. Still starts in at about the same speed (50 mph), and gets a little louder the faster I go.
I guess I'm going to have to try taking a few thousandths pinion shim depth out, and hope that makes a noticeable difference. If that doesn't work, I don't really know what else to do.
Is there any possibility that the differential (Strange S-trac in my case) could be the source of the whine? I guess I've ruled it out until now because it doesn't make any sounds while I'm turning. Or could the sound magically go away as I put more miles on the gears? Probably only got 60-80 miles on the gears right now.
I guess I'm going to have to try taking a few thousandths pinion shim depth out, and hope that makes a noticeable difference. If that doesn't work, I don't really know what else to do.
Is there any possibility that the differential (Strange S-trac in my case) could be the source of the whine? I guess I've ruled it out until now because it doesn't make any sounds while I'm turning. Or could the sound magically go away as I put more miles on the gears? Probably only got 60-80 miles on the gears right now.
09-26-2012, 07:59 AM
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Your pattern looks great. Looks like it has been set up very well. Put some miles on that gear set before you they need time to lap themselves in. Put at least 500 miles on it. I would also use mineral based gear oil instead of synthetic during break in. I have also noticed that fabricated rear end housings seam to transmit sound better. Just my $.02
they need time to lap themselves in. Put at least 500 miles on it. I would also use mineral based gear oil instead of synthetic during break in. I have also noticed that fabricated rear end housings seam to transmit sound better. Just my $.02
10-05-2012, 09:31 PM
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i have almost the exact same problem i just installed a quick performance rear end with motive 4.10s koni 4/4 strano springs but i have stock panhard bar torque bar, i have maybe 800 miles and still whines bad at anything above 50 mph but only under a slight load i too would love to hear if you find out anything bc it also frustrates me
10-07-2012, 01:25 PM
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i have almost the exact same problem i just installed a quick performance rear end with motive 4.10s koni 4/4 strano springs but i have stock panhard bar torque bar, i have maybe 800 miles and still whines bad at anything above 50 mph but only under a slight load i too would love to hear if you find out anything bc it also frustrates me
About a week ago, I removed 0.002" of pinion shim (move pinion in deeper), but this didn't seem to help at all. Maybe removing/adding pinion shims could eventually get me where I want to be, but I don't know if it would, and I feel like I'd be messing up other things like backlash in the process.
My next plan of action is to ship the pumpkin to Strange to let them set it up with a new ring and pinion and bearings if necessary. Already have the pumpkin out, just need to ship it tomorrow, and should have it back and installed in a couple of weeks.
Last edited by FancyFarmSS; 10-07-2012 at 01:31 PM.
10-07-2012, 02:48 PM
#19
Your pattern looks great. Looks like it has been set up very well. Put some miles on that gear set before you they need time to lap themselves in. Put at least 500 miles on it. I would also use mineral based gear oil instead of synthetic during break in. I have also noticed that fabricated rear end housings seam to transmit sound better. Just my $.02
they need time to lap themselves in. Put at least 500 miles on it. I would also use mineral based gear oil instead of synthetic during break in. I have also noticed that fabricated rear end housings seam to transmit sound better. Just my $.02
10-07-2012, 03:08 PM
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I did follow the break-in instructions of MWC, as far as doing at least 5 heat up / cool down cycles, staying below 55 mph, no hard acceleration at all.