01WS6BLACKLS1

Hello guys I know there is tons of "gears vs stall" however I have a question about gears for my type of driving. My trans am is a 2001 automatic. I know that stalls give the best e.t. reduction and s.o.t.p. when launching. However I live in central pa in a very small town. I literally drive 3.4 miles to work and back and the occasional weekend cruise around town and through the country roads. The closest drag strip is like a 2 hour drive so I know that I wont be going there its my toy/ daily driver for 7 months out of the year. would 3.73 gears be more beneficial for me, I think so just wanted more experienced guys voice their opinion so I can stew on what direction to go. Also if i ever do decide to go to the strip would it hurt my top end for the 1/4 as far as shifting cause the motor is not touched bolt ons, mods in sig. Thanks guys!

murphinator

iTrader: (2)

the difference between adding a nice stall and 373's is night and day even if you never go to the track.

Previous to ls1 f bodies I played with bolt on 3800 supercharged cars that make good power immediately , my first impression of mashing a stock ls1 f body was where is the power ? till I drove a stalled one night and day difference , ls1's don't make decent power till over 3 grand (then they make excellent power) , gears get you over 3 grand sooner - a stall gets you there NOW , a stall will feel like you added 100hp every time you mash it

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

What's your current rearend ratio,2.73(GU2) or 3.23(GU5) ? I'm assuming 3.23s'. 3.23s' to 3.73s' will increase your torque to the rear wheels by 16%,it'll feel like an increase of 50 horsepower.
As far as a torque convertor,going to a good 3600(custom built,not off the shelf in stock at some vendor,will be an increase of 100 horsepower when you hit the 'go' pedal. See graph.
You'd be immediately jumping into a higher horsepower part of the curve instead of having to climb up to it because of the OEM 1800 convertor.
The most popular consensus combination is 3600/4000 with 3.73 gears.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I agree completely, especially with the bolded part. Gear ratio changes up to ~3.73 offer an "OK" SOTP gain, but doing a 3500+ stall speed is a like a shot of N2O compared to a stock car. It's quite shocking the first time you experience it, assuming you're used to only stock LS1s. A 3.73 gear swap alone will never give that same kick, and this is also reflected in ET reduction (3500+ stall speed will drop ETs twice as much, or more, as a 3.73 swap with a stock stall - even when going from 2.73 to 3.73 - assuming full traction in both cases.)

Even for purely street driving with zero track/competition time, I would still suggest a stall swap first for an LS1/4L60E car.

WS6s all came with 3.23s if they were ordered with an auto. The GU5 rear was a required option with WS6 and MX0/M30.

IMO, the higher end "off the shelf" converters from PI or Yank, for example, are quite good and should not be overlooked in favor of something custom tailored to an exact build - especially for a stockish LS1 car.

For those individuals bothered by looseness of the stall speed, the 3.73 swap is a nice fix. With 3.23s already in place though, many people won't find a high quality ~3500 to be loose enough to justify the cost and potential hassles of a 3.73 swap for such a minimal performance gain and slightly "tighter" around town driving. I always recommend doing the stall first, drive it for a bit and if you are one of the few who is excessively bothered by converter "looseness" you can always then do the 3.73 swap.

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

When I was referring to 'custom stall' I was referring to Yank,CircleD,PTI. The 'vendors' I was referring to was stores that carry convertors ready to ship.
Yes,stall first,with an aftermarket tranny fluid cooler. That way you can keep your 3.23 mpg for freeway cruising.
I did a TCI 2800 with my OEM 3.23s',very loose. When I put a 4.56 geared rearend in,looseness was gone. Put a Yank SS3600 in and was still very tight. Put the OEM rearend back in(after a rebuild) and the Yank SS3600 was still tight.

01WS6BLACKLS1

thanks for the responses guys very surprised that you guys would use the stall even for that short of distance of use. To me though having never rode in a stalled car also, i thought i would want the gears, especially since its a short distance.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to the several manufacturers who will create a converter custom tailored to a specific build - a great idea for highly modified cars/race cars but overkill for a stockish LS1, IMO.

There are several site sponsors who have some of the common stall speeds from Yank, PI, etc. available to ship quickly.



Quality is everything when it comes to avoiding "looseness". I agree to stay away from cheap(er) converters. I've also experienced high end ~3800 stall speeds that felt nearly stock with stock gears compared to some cheap 2500-2800 units that had road manners more like a ~4500 stall.

I would never pick gears before stall, for any reason in any LS1/4L60E combo. The 4L60E has a relatively aggressive internal first gear ratio (3.06:1) compared to other A4 (and older A3) transmissions so, especially with a stock 3.23, you already have a pretty aggressive overall 1st ratio (3.23 x 3.06 = 9.88). This is much more aggressive than the 1st gear ratios of older TH350/400 transmissions (2.52/2.48 respectively) and the typical 2.5x-2.7x final drive ratios that would have come with many of those older cars. 1st gear is the biggest concern as this would include launch and building momentum (vs. at higher speeds.)

If you had an old 2nd gen F-body with a TH350 and a 2.xx final drive ratio, I might suggest doing a gear swap along with the stall or even before the stall. But with a 4L60E, and especially with 3.23s already in place, I would always recommend the stall swap first.

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

Ive tossed around the idea of just keeping my 4000 stall and 3.23 gears.. or possibly adding 3.73.

Im running the mods in my sig. My car is just a fun daily driven street car. Ive been doing searches and seen skme people say its not worth it swapping from 3.23 to 3.73. So not sure.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Gains from a 3.23 to 3.73 swap are marginal with a 4000 stall already in place. ET reduction would be limited to about one tenth or less. It would feel just a bit tighter on the street, that would be the only real gain. Downsides of the gear swap would be loss of highway MPG (small, but still there), potential gear whine/longevity loss/other install related issues, and the requirement of a retune for shift points and speedo accuracy. If it's track gains you're looking for, the money would be better spent elsewhere. If it's tighter throttle response you're looking for, then whether or not it's worth it all depends on how much you are bothered by the looseness. It's a lot of money to spend if you can't do the install & retune yourself and you're generally happy with the road manners of the current 4000 stall/3.23 combo.

01WS6BLACKLS1

Well here is another thought would a fti street brawler 3200 with 3.73 gears be a good set up?

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

My personal preference would be for a Yank SS3600 (or comparable stall speed PI/Vig) assuming stock/bolt-on engine, and the stock 3.23s.

ws6dude

I went with just the gears and just cruise around town. Made a big difference.

98CayenneT/A

I went from 2.73's to 3.73's then a yank 3600 and like said above it was like adding 100 hp after the converter. The first time I laid into it after putting the converter in, it was actually against a stock 01 Mustang gt that was trying to pick a fight at a stop light while I was breaking in the converter and I said **** it and let her loose, I literally put 5 bus lengths on him by the end of second ( 75mph ) pulled up to the next light and talked and he was like "**** dude you putting down 400+hp or what?" Needless to say I was very happy with my mod

TXZ28LS1

iTrader: (5)

Thanks RPM..

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

"Big difference" is relative to the individual and their respective experiences I guess. 3.23 to 3.73 is a drop in the bucket compared to going from a stock stall to a ~3600 stall.

01WS6BLACKLS1

I do have another question I really am leaning towards a stall just for the fact that my old 90 camaro I had I put 3.73 in it with stock stall pushed through the brakes. I want the 3.73 gears in my ws6 too. Would it push through the brakes with stock stall bad since this car from factory don't have to much low end grunt from the stock cam design. Thanks again.

madmike9396

iTrader: (29)

If you looking at stalls FTI makes good stuff as well

01WS6BLACKLS1

Yeah I've been looking at the fti budget 3200 stall but definitely want the gears just scared cause the car has 90000 miles and it shifts fine just not sure if it will kill it quick but I know this should be in the transmission forum for the transmission stuff just can't make my mind up I'm 70/30 if you will lol sorry guys

FirstYrLS1Z

iTrader: (4)

explain your definition of 'pushed thru the brakes'.
FTI budget 3200 ? more specific or 'link' to the one you're mentioning.
Seems to me you are very hesitant to go big (now) and not realizing you'd have to do it all over again to go big. Too many purchasers of the 2500-3200 range of convertors wished they had listened to the advice/recommendations given on this forum.
Budget ? convertor. Are you limited by funds. If so,save so you can afford a proper one. Buying a $300-400 convertor and then buying a $700-800 convertor to replace the $300-400 convertor because it gave disappointing performance has a total price tag of $1000-1200. That $300-400 could have gone towards gears.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Agreed.

Torque converter is no place to cheapen out IMO. Cheap converters are one reason why some people think they "need" gears to retain/regain decent street manners with a ~3500+ stall speed. It's shocking how non-intrusive a 3500-4000 stall speed can be with stock gears when you purchase a top shelf model.