Handheld tune=camshaft failure!
05-10-2010, 10:58 PM
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Handheld tune=camshaft failure! Just so you know I do not in fact own a 5th gen camaro however I felt I should leave this info to see what you guys think.
My buddy is a mechanic in a town near by and he was telling me about a SS camaro driven by a stripper/ women (usless info but interesting none the less)! The car had just turned over 2000 miles when brought to the shop with complaints on hesitation at around 2000rpm. They went over with a fine toothed come and found nothing... There were no visual mods and car looked well maintained. The problem seemed to get worse the more the car was driven. After the ok from GM they had tore the motor out of it's engine bay and began tear down. Everything seemed fine till the camshaft was pulled now I don't know what lobes specifically that were damaged but there were 3 of them heavily scared and 2 of the 3 were grinded down enough to notice it in a picture showing the whole cam. This was the cause of the loss of power and driving problems. The PCM was shipped to GM from my understanding... Came back with a void warranty due to performance modification to vehicle found in the PCM! I was told the lady after being notified of void warranty, that she had mentioned a handheld programer was used to gain extra performance.
That was what he had told me and he does have a pic that I can see if he atill has so I can upload it to you guys! Let me know what you think as I'm interested to see If this has happened before?
My buddy is a mechanic in a town near by and he was telling me about a SS camaro driven by a stripper/ women (usless info but interesting none the less)! The car had just turned over 2000 miles when brought to the shop with complaints on hesitation at around 2000rpm. They went over with a fine toothed come and found nothing... There were no visual mods and car looked well maintained. The problem seemed to get worse the more the car was driven. After the ok from GM they had tore the motor out of it's engine bay and began tear down. Everything seemed fine till the camshaft was pulled now I don't know what lobes specifically that were damaged but there were 3 of them heavily scared and 2 of the 3 were grinded down enough to notice it in a picture showing the whole cam. This was the cause of the loss of power and driving problems. The PCM was shipped to GM from my understanding... Came back with a void warranty due to performance modification to vehicle found in the PCM! I was told the lady after being notified of void warranty, that she had mentioned a handheld programer was used to gain extra performance.
That was what he had told me and he does have a pic that I can see if he atill has so I can upload it to you guys! Let me know what you think as I'm interested to see If this has happened before?
05-11-2010, 12:30 AM
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Hmm I am no tuner and no mechanich by any means but would the handheld tuners like predator and sct tuners have that capability to change the afm enough to cause failure? I know they prolly can (i have never been for the handheld so I don't know much about them) but would it Allow enough of a change? Again I'm not a tuner nor mechanich by any means but I know a few things lol this tho I'm uncertain of which is why I ask.... I like to learn haha
05-11-2010, 07:21 AM
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Interesting, assuming it was an Automatic. I find it very hard to believe that a tune would effect a cam or lifter. Now if they raised the reve limiter and it was a stick car there is potential to hurt the valvetrain. Usualy it's valves hitting the piston, breaking rockers or valve springs that fail in a high RPM situation.
The cam and lifters are very stout parts and can take a lot of abuse. If they can prove that the tune was the problem they can deny the repairs. If they cannot then they must honor the warranty. The problem is that it's going to cost more to fight the situation than to fix the problem.
It's funny that they "tore the engine out from the engine bay" since you don't need to do that to replace a cam and lifters. The shop is adding to the drama from what you are saying.
Robin
The cam and lifters are very stout parts and can take a lot of abuse. If they can prove that the tune was the problem they can deny the repairs. If they cannot then they must honor the warranty. The problem is that it's going to cost more to fight the situation than to fix the problem.
It's funny that they "tore the engine out from the engine bay" since you don't need to do that to replace a cam and lifters. The shop is adding to the drama from what you are saying.
Robin
05-11-2010, 08:09 AM
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Yeah I agree ^^^ but from what I was told GM did in fact void her warranty and she is now left to pay for the repairs. I seen the car myself the day before tear down and they were awaiting GM confromation to go ahead with tear down. I would imagine they could have done/found out what was wrong without taking the engine out but I beleive that it was needed/requested by GM as they were wanting any and all info about the car. I do beleive it was an automatic but I'm not positive. I'll get ahold of him later on today for
the picture and to double Check my story since he told me about 3 weeks ago. But the one thing I did remember was that GM did in fact void her warranty.
the picture and to double Check my story since he told me about 3 weeks ago. But the one thing I did remember was that GM did in fact void her warranty.
05-11-2010, 08:23 AM
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Well if they are telling her that they "voided the warranty" then she should seek legal help. I would guess that GM has deniied the warranty claim and by the time it has filtered to you it's being told that they voided the warranty.
IF they tune or re cal can be tied to the parts failure they can deny the warranty claim.
If not then they need to fix the problem.
There is protection under the law for the installation of non authorized parts. Again , if they can tie the tune to the failure she is toast.
I would think that a phone call to the dstrict managers wife from the car owner may sway the situation........ROFLMAO NOT
Post pitures of the parts, it doesn't sound like the dealer was much help in this deal.
Robin
IF they tune or re cal can be tied to the parts failure they can deny the warranty claim.
If not then they need to fix the problem.
There is protection under the law for the installation of non authorized parts. Again , if they can tie the tune to the failure she is toast.
I would think that a phone call to the dstrict managers wife from the car owner may sway the situation........ROFLMAO NOT
Post pitures of the parts, it doesn't sound like the dealer was much help in this deal.
Robin
05-11-2010, 08:48 AM
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I'll see if I can get ahold of the pics...and yeah the dealer was no help I have talked to the owner and a few of the management guys... Real buttholes IMO!! Owner was even a jerk enough to tell me that if I bought from another dealer that (I worked for in the parts dept) that I would regret it and that also fixing and getting parts for a 08 Saturn would be hard and next to impossible, he also mentioned that by looking at me he could tell I have never worked on a car LOL it was right then that I walked away. I am no mechanich like stated however I do all my own work and when I have a question my brother is a mechanich at the other dealer so this guys "judgement" took away any future sale from me and my family. I'll check in asap once I get the pics
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05-12-2010, 12:21 PM
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Nice to see you are here on LS1Tech as well Robin.
I read your stuff everywhere on Camaro5.com.
Wow...intrigueing story. I'm sure that the dealer spiffed up the story some too.
Would like to hear the outcome as this has been a heated topic elsewhere too.
-Ivan
I read your stuff everywhere on Camaro5.com.
Wow...intrigueing story. I'm sure that the dealer spiffed up the story some too.
Would like to hear the outcome as this has been a heated topic elsewhere too.
-Ivan
05-12-2010, 05:22 PM
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From my understanding through a tuner here in AZ that told me any tune put in to the PCM will void the warranty period. The PCM and the BCM go hand in hand and basically put a time stamp when power has been pulled/flashed, guess this is upper level technician/GM engineer area. Not sure about the truth to this but this was explained as I called to see about getting the line pressure/limiter raised and shift points moved up on my 2010.
Last edited by fastls1inaz; 05-12-2010 at 05:28 PM.
05-12-2010, 08:08 PM
#13
I too was told by some GM Techs that they have to prove the part/parts you added or tweaked caused the failure before they can void it. There was an issue where my buddies '04 GTP kept popping transmissions. Well they knew it was modded and GM even sent out one of their techs to check it over. It was determined that there was an issue with the trans maintaining pressure and therefore causing a trans failure. The GM tech said there was no reason he could find that the mods would have caused the failure and he approved the fix. He actually had a rebuilt trans and that failed within 3k miles so the dealer wanted a new one installed and the only way it could be done was if one of GM's specialist's came out to inspect. I believe he even commented on the mods under the hood. His was using a Tuning program, pulley, headers, intake, Intercooler, full exhaust and a cam and they still approved it. If she contacts legal help she can probably get it fixed.
05-15-2010, 12:44 PM
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Interesting, assuming it was an Automatic. I find it very hard to believe that a tune would effect a cam or lifter. Now if they raised the reve limiter and it was a stick car there is potential to hurt the valvetrain. Usualy it's valves hitting the piston, breaking rockers or valve springs that fail in a high RPM situation.
Robin
Robin
From my understanding through a tuner here in AZ that told me any tune put in to the PCM will void the warranty period. The PCM and the BCM go hand in hand and basically put a time stamp when power has been pulled/flashed, guess this is upper level technician/GM engineer area. Not sure about the truth to this but this was explained as I called to see about getting the line pressure/limiter raised and shift points moved up on my 2010.
I too was told by some GM Techs that they have to prove the part/parts you added or tweaked caused the failure before they can void it. There was an issue where my buddies '04 GTP kept popping transmissions. Well they knew it was modded and GM even sent out one of their techs to check it over. It was determined that there was an issue with the trans maintaining pressure and therefore causing a trans failure. The GM tech said there was no reason he could find that the mods would have caused the failure and he approved the fix. He actually had a rebuilt trans and that failed within 3k miles so the dealer wanted a new one installed and the only way it could be done was if one of GM's specialist's came out to inspect. I believe he even commented on the mods under the hood. His was using a Tuning program, pulley, headers, intake, Intercooler, full exhaust and a cam and they still approved it. If she contacts legal help she can probably get it fixed.
05-17-2010, 08:17 AM
#16
IIRC the Tech 3 can identify a flash tune but not the tech 2. Basically even if put back to stock you can still see the change (as mentioned in a previous post in this thread) something about a number that doesn't match in the software code or something like that. Guess they're getting into making sure we don't screw with their tunes, at least while under warranty.
05-21-2010, 11:48 AM
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ok, i didn't want to start a new thread but, how much power could possibly be made by a diablo predator or trinity? Somehow I get the notion that I should stick with bolt on mods like intake, exhaust, to free up a little hp and still be able to get warranty work if needed vs slapping on a tuner and GM finding out when my pcm is scanned and warranty voided.....Thoughts and info?
Thanks!
Thanks!
05-25-2010, 01:50 AM
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I spoke to a GM western regional supervisor last week. His exact words.
"Anything not sold by GM or installed by GM will void the warranty pertaining to that specific part."
So with that said and being, I went and test drove a 2011 GT, way more options and way cheaper than the Camaro. My car has 1600 miles and I'm about to trade it in if the correct deal is put into place.
I'm sorry but voiding the warranty on a sports car for adding after market items is insane. I'm not paying $450 for a cold air, $800 for axle back exhaust or $1000 bucks for coated manifolds by GMPP. I'm a die hard GM guy but this whole warranty deal has turned me away.
I can understand heavy mods, but simple mods..give me a break.
"Anything not sold by GM or installed by GM will void the warranty pertaining to that specific part."
So with that said and being, I went and test drove a 2011 GT, way more options and way cheaper than the Camaro. My car has 1600 miles and I'm about to trade it in if the correct deal is put into place.
I'm sorry but voiding the warranty on a sports car for adding after market items is insane. I'm not paying $450 for a cold air, $800 for axle back exhaust or $1000 bucks for coated manifolds by GMPP. I'm a die hard GM guy but this whole warranty deal has turned me away.
I can understand heavy mods, but simple mods..give me a break.