Impressions from the Camaro Focus Group
05-22-2008, 12:36 PM
#21
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I guess the chicks are there to make sure the V6 is up to their standards. They probably squirmed driving the V8. "oh my god! why would anyone want a car this powerful....wahhhh....What? I can't drive this, it's a standard! Don't ya'll have an automatic laying around?"
Ok, I take that back...most of the ladies there look old enough to have driven a manual at some point in their lives...
But seriously, what's up with all the old fogeys in this focus group? I guess no one told them that when you get the young guys hooked early, you keep them as customers for life. Look at Honda.
05-22-2008, 07:24 PM
#22
One of the lead engineers/production managers is a female (Cheryl Pilcher).
The old guys are probably in their 40's/50's. These people were brought up around the original Camaros and were probably buying brand new 3rd and 4th gens. They know a lot about the Camaro brand. These are also people who can afford any version of the 5th gen, which I would assume a lot of people who criticize the car can not.
The old guys are probably in their 40's/50's. These people were brought up around the original Camaros and were probably buying brand new 3rd and 4th gens. They know a lot about the Camaro brand. These are also people who can afford any version of the 5th gen, which I would assume a lot of people who criticize the car can not.
05-22-2008, 10:24 PM
#24
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Sounds great. I might actually be interested in a V6 w/ an M6. A 300 horse V6 priced in the low - mid $20k's sounds interesting. 
As for colors, I'm hoping to see hugger orange and some sort of bright blue.
As for colors, I'm hoping to see hugger orange and some sort of bright blue.
05-23-2008, 05:39 AM
#25
you said the V6 power was great...but how was the V8 power in comparison?!
the more i see this car the more i like it!
i might have to consider trading my 05 ram and 00Z28 in for one of these if theyre so amazing
the more i see this car the more i like it!
i might have to consider trading my 05 ram and 00Z28 in for one of these if theyre so amazing
05-23-2008, 12:44 PM
#26
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One of the lead engineers/production managers is a female (Cheryl Pilcher).
The old guys are probably in their 40's/50's. These people were brought up around the original Camaros and were probably buying brand new 3rd and 4th gens. They know a lot about the Camaro brand. These are also people who can afford any version of the 5th gen, which I would assume a lot of people who criticize the car can not.
The old guys are probably in their 40's/50's. These people were brought up around the original Camaros and were probably buying brand new 3rd and 4th gens. They know a lot about the Camaro brand. These are also people who can afford any version of the 5th gen, which I would assume a lot of people who criticize the car can not.
05-23-2008, 02:49 PM
#27
Well hopefully I can pick up the top model in 2-4 years. I couldn't wait any longer and spent the 20k I had for a deposit to build a 427 for the SS. Oh well. Should be a great car.
05-23-2008, 04:36 PM
#28
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Unfortunately after seeing the car in person last year at Carlisle PA I personnally do not like the looks of the car. I really think that GM missed a great oppurtunity to do something more retro like Mopar and Ford and really missed the boat. The gauges remind me of the dash in my chevy truck. My flame suit is on just my 02
05-23-2008, 06:54 PM
#29
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It will be priced like the Mustang, which is what cars like this go for nowadays and you can't afford that?
05-23-2008, 11:00 PM
#32
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I just don't like how every manufacturer seems to think that you can't sell a RWD coupe for under $20K. It's madness. Why would any competent car buyer want a $21K Camaro 3.6L over a similarly priced Malibu or Fusion which would yield much more room for people and stuff? Everyone seems to have forgotten that with a Camaro/Mustang you ARE getting LESS CAR for your money than a sedan. By that definition, logically the coupes should sell for significantly less than the sedans they are based on. I can't stand that coupes have more or less become fashion statements and not just 2 door cars in today's day and age. Honestly, a pony car is not supposed to be an expensive endeavor, so why do manufacturers feel the need to jack up the prices?
An '02 Camaro Z28 cost a couple grand more to purchase than my truck back in the day, but it was much less vehicle for the money. Why? Oh, wait...it's because GM was more or less selling 3rd gens with LS1's for BMW prices. Tell me how that makes sense.
05-24-2008, 01:04 AM
#33
I was shocked at the size of it too after seeing it last week. I wasn't expecting something like my subaru but it is pretty big.
05-24-2008, 08:48 AM
#34
A Camaro with a LSA is much more of a car than $20k can afford it. If you want bargain-basement, look at the base V8. That's how it has been forever. You think a 396 SS/RS was the run-of-the-mill cheapo? No.
It's no different on the Ford side. You want the top-dog Mustang? You're going to pay over $40k for it. Same goes for the Challenger.
It's no different on the Ford side. You want the top-dog Mustang? You're going to pay over $40k for it. Same goes for the Challenger.
05-24-2008, 11:06 AM
#35
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A Camaro with a LSA is much more of a car than $20k can afford it. If you want bargain-basement, look at the base V8. That's how it has been forever. You think a 396 SS/RS was the run-of-the-mill cheapo? No.
It's no different on the Ford side. You want the top-dog Mustang? You're going to pay over $40k for it. Same goes for the Challenger.
It's no different on the Ford side. You want the top-dog Mustang? You're going to pay over $40k for it. Same goes for the Challenger.
Around here you can get a V8 Mustang for around $24k brand new, and a six for less than $20K. If you really think GM will sell a 6.0L Camaro for $24K, you're dreaming. I would LOVE for them to do that, and by all means they really should be doing it, but they aren't because they are GM and the Camaro apparently isn't for common folk anymore, rather, a Chevrolet version of the GTO.
I merely think it's absurd that GM always seems to pull this "elitist" attitude out of its *** when it comes to selling fun-to-drive cars. Dodge is completely out of line for selling their RWD cars at the prices they sell them. Has anyone over in Auburn Hills taken a look at how cheap and disgusting their regular lineup is? Dodge used to be nice, about like Pontiac, but now it has sunk to about where Plymouth would be if it was still around...which begs the question...what gives Dodge the idea that their cars are worth that much to people? Similarly, what the hell is up with Chevrolet thinking that they can honestly sell 2-door coupes for as much as I'm sure they will be asking?
Seriously.
BTW...has anyone noticed that the sub-$20K car market is more or less OWNED by the Japanese and Koreans? Where the hell are the Domestics? There is no reason GM, Ford, and the Mopar twins can't make competitive small cars...other than the fact that they make their base offerings so repulsive that you would much rather spend 4-5K more for the infinitely better $20K-plus range of vehicles they offer. You see?
There is no reason the Aveo HAS to be THAT UGLY other than the fact that they want to up-sell you on a Cobalt, etc.
*rant over*
P.S.
I'd be happy with a 4.8L V8 Camaro if it was priced like a 4.8L V8 Camaro should be...
05-24-2008, 11:30 AM
#36
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Noone should be surprised that a V8 car will cost significantly more than your avg car.
Back in the old days of muscle cars, you know, before fuel injection, etc. you could get a regular car with some muscle in it. In some cases you could order just about any car with any motor. If that held true today you could have ordered your Cobalt with an LS2 or something, but in the post CAFE world they can't give you a cheap way to get that car with a V8 or it screws up their CAFE. So anything with a V8 has to be expensive in order to sell fewer of them. So then if you are going to put down the new higher $$ to get your v8 you expect a hell of a lot more than just a box with a v8 in it. In the end you get the "Corvette-ification" of muscle cars where they are all very nice and much better than the old days, but the every-man V8 "car" disappears. So to keep the price down they either have to find a way to get EVEN MORE efficiency out of these V8s or the industry can start stepping up with more and more forced-induction options, which wouldn't be bad thing. Of course there may be other possibilities but I think a realistic power-dense super-battery is still a long time coming.
If the govt continues to try to force technology, sure the industry will respond, but look how long it took muscle cars to come back after they were all but killed off in the 70s/80s. For now, bite your lip, smile big, keep stepping up to the plate showing that we still love 'em and want 'em, pay a little more, enjoy your better-than-ever Camaro, be glad they are still around, keep the flags flying, and above all--enjoy it!
-RCowan
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93 Black 3.1v6 hardtop -RIP
85 Black 305v8 carb'd T-top -gone
Back in the old days of muscle cars, you know, before fuel injection, etc. you could get a regular car with some muscle in it. In some cases you could order just about any car with any motor. If that held true today you could have ordered your Cobalt with an LS2 or something, but in the post CAFE world they can't give you a cheap way to get that car with a V8 or it screws up their CAFE. So anything with a V8 has to be expensive in order to sell fewer of them. So then if you are going to put down the new higher $$ to get your v8 you expect a hell of a lot more than just a box with a v8 in it. In the end you get the "Corvette-ification" of muscle cars where they are all very nice and much better than the old days, but the every-man V8 "car" disappears. So to keep the price down they either have to find a way to get EVEN MORE efficiency out of these V8s or the industry can start stepping up with more and more forced-induction options, which wouldn't be bad thing. Of course there may be other possibilities but I think a realistic power-dense super-battery is still a long time coming.
If the govt continues to try to force technology, sure the industry will respond, but look how long it took muscle cars to come back after they were all but killed off in the 70s/80s. For now, bite your lip, smile big, keep stepping up to the plate showing that we still love 'em and want 'em, pay a little more, enjoy your better-than-ever Camaro, be glad they are still around, keep the flags flying, and above all--enjoy it!
-RCowan
99SS Black Vert
93 Black 3.1v6 hardtop -RIP
85 Black 305v8 carb'd T-top -gone
05-24-2008, 11:37 AM
#37
TECH Senior Member
I just don't like how every manufacturer seems to think that you can't sell a RWD coupe for under $20K. It's madness. Why would any competent car buyer want a $21K Camaro 3.6L over a similarly priced Malibu or Fusion which would yield much more room for people and stuff?
Honestly, a pony car is not supposed to be an expensive endeavor, so why do manufacturers feel the need to jack up the prices?
An '02 Camaro Z28 cost a couple grand more to purchase than my truck back in the day, but it was much less vehicle for the money. Why? Oh, wait...it's because GM was more or less selling 3rd gens with LS1's for BMW prices. Tell me how that makes sense.
05-25-2008, 11:28 PM
#38
>Poor College Student
I just don't like how every manufacturer seems to think that you can't sell a RWD coupe for under $20K. It's madness. Why would any competent car buyer want a $21K Camaro 3.6L over a similarly priced Malibu or Fusion which would yield much more room for people and stuff? Everyone seems to have forgotten that with a Camaro/Mustang you ARE getting LESS CAR for your money than a sedan. By that definition, logically the coupes should sell for significantly less than the sedans they are based on. I can't stand that coupes have more or less become fashion statements and not just 2 door cars in today's day and age. Honestly, a pony car is not supposed to be an expensive endeavor, so why do manufacturers feel the need to jack up the prices?
An '02 Camaro Z28 cost a couple grand more to purchase than my truck back in the day, but it was much less vehicle for the money. Why? Oh, wait...it's because GM was more or less selling 3rd gens with LS1's for BMW prices. Tell me how that makes sense.
I just don't like how every manufacturer seems to think that you can't sell a RWD coupe for under $20K. It's madness. Why would any competent car buyer want a $21K Camaro 3.6L over a similarly priced Malibu or Fusion which would yield much more room for people and stuff? Everyone seems to have forgotten that with a Camaro/Mustang you ARE getting LESS CAR for your money than a sedan. By that definition, logically the coupes should sell for significantly less than the sedans they are based on. I can't stand that coupes have more or less become fashion statements and not just 2 door cars in today's day and age. Honestly, a pony car is not supposed to be an expensive endeavor, so why do manufacturers feel the need to jack up the prices?
An '02 Camaro Z28 cost a couple grand more to purchase than my truck back in the day, but it was much less vehicle for the money. Why? Oh, wait...it's because GM was more or less selling 3rd gens with LS1's for BMW prices. Tell me how that makes sense.
and i can see this car as being something that will eat into other markets like G35 and BMW 3 series coupes due to performance and refinement.
05-26-2008, 01:52 PM
#39
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you shuld define what "more car for the money" really means. more car as in a big trunk and 4 doors for a family to comfortably fit into? or more car as in when you sit in the car its gonna give you the ride of your life and put a huge **** eating grin on your face? however you define that should resemble what you look for in buying a car...i want something thats gonna kick majhor ***!
and i can see this car as being something that will eat into other markets like G35 and BMW 3 series coupes due to performance and refinement.
and i can see this car as being something that will eat into other markets like G35 and BMW 3 series coupes due to performance and refinement.
See, I'm the kind of guy who thinks IRS and Nurburgring testing is pretty sweet, but I could live without it if it hikes up the price of the car significantly. There were great handling cars before IRS was common and Nurburgring testing was a standard procedure. I think it's great that the Camaro will be a BMW/Infiniti/Acura eater, but was that it's original role in this world? Hell no. It was a PERSONAL, 2-door coupe. It had so many variants and options that it WAS its OWN family of cars. Now I know that that kind of thing isn't entirely possible anymore, but for pete's sake, that doesn't mean they shouldn't try! Until the late-model 4th gens, the Camaro could be a relatively budget-friendly car if you didn't tack on the options and stripes. You could have an agressive-looking coupe for a good price, or you could have a barn-stormer with fantastic handling if you felt like emptying your wallet.
My point is this...the Camaro was always an everyman's car, but GM has felt the need to raise the bottom-line of the vehicle, placing it out of a lot of folks' price range. It has been losing it's identity since '98. So okay. It's not the same car it used to be. I have a problem with that. Does anyone else?
05-26-2008, 03:38 PM
#40
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I meant the first definition you gave. I guess the price hike of the pony cars is dude to the fact that there just aren't that many coupes out there nowadays, and the manufacturers feel the need to make the consumer "pay" for the "crime" of wanting a 2-door. I guess I'm just irritated that so many car companies could really give a **** what people want. Yes, people want the Camaro, but what about the guys who want a Chevelle or Nova? If GM made a budget Nova on that new Alpha platform, they would be my hero.
See, I'm the kind of guy who thinks IRS and Nurburgring testing is pretty sweet, but I could live without it if it hikes up the price of the car significantly. There were great handling cars before IRS was common and Nurburgring testing was a standard procedure. I think it's great that the Camaro will be a BMW/Infiniti/Acura eater, but was that it's original role in this world? Hell no. It was a PERSONAL, 2-door coupe. It had so many variants and options that it WAS its OWN family of cars. Now I know that that kind of thing isn't entirely possible anymore, but for pete's sake, that doesn't mean they shouldn't try! Until the late-model 4th gens, the Camaro could be a relatively budget-friendly car if you didn't tack on the options and stripes. You could have an agressive-looking coupe for a good price, or you could have a barn-stormer with fantastic handling if you felt like emptying your wallet.
My point is this...the Camaro was always an everyman's car, but GM has felt the need to raise the bottom-line of the vehicle, placing it out of a lot of folks' price range. It has been losing it's identity since '98. So okay. It's not the same car it used to be. I have a problem with that. Does anyone else?
See, I'm the kind of guy who thinks IRS and Nurburgring testing is pretty sweet, but I could live without it if it hikes up the price of the car significantly. There were great handling cars before IRS was common and Nurburgring testing was a standard procedure. I think it's great that the Camaro will be a BMW/Infiniti/Acura eater, but was that it's original role in this world? Hell no. It was a PERSONAL, 2-door coupe. It had so many variants and options that it WAS its OWN family of cars. Now I know that that kind of thing isn't entirely possible anymore, but for pete's sake, that doesn't mean they shouldn't try! Until the late-model 4th gens, the Camaro could be a relatively budget-friendly car if you didn't tack on the options and stripes. You could have an agressive-looking coupe for a good price, or you could have a barn-stormer with fantastic handling if you felt like emptying your wallet.
My point is this...the Camaro was always an everyman's car, but GM has felt the need to raise the bottom-line of the vehicle, placing it out of a lot of folks' price range. It has been losing it's identity since '98. So okay. It's not the same car it used to be. I have a problem with that. Does anyone else?
Every car models have a tendency to "grow up" so to speak. The fact that it took this many years for it to happen to the Camaro is quite unusual. Most cars only take about 2 model runs before they start getting bigger, more refined, and more expensive.