Any use for stock LS1 241 heads?
11-20-2010, 07:13 AM
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Any use for stock LS1 241 heads? I've still got my stock LS1 heads in storage.. Any use for em?? I was gonna save em just in case I got an offer for the car I can put the stock heads and cam back in the car and transfer the good stuff to a Vette...
But there's no vette and my M6 in the car is worth a lot. I'm married to the car.
But there's no vette and my M6 in the car is worth a lot. I'm married to the car.
11-20-2010, 07:37 AM
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^ I'm running a set of P+P'd LS6 heads. Got em from someone here a couple years ago. I still have my LS1 intake in storage too, I didn't think was worth anything.
I'm basically running an LS6 top end. I was reading that the 241 heads can do pretty decent when worked over.
Found this on LS1.com
I'm basically running an LS6 top end. I was reading that the 241 heads can do pretty decent when worked over.
Found this on LS1.com
Here is some interesting info for ya comparing LS1 heads to LS6 heads.
For starters, the LS1 heads have an intake runner CC of 200 and an exhaust runner CC of 70.
The LS6 heads have an intake runner CC of 210 and an exhaust runner CC of 75.
Right off the bat in unported form, the LS6 heads already have an advantage.
Here are some flow numbers on the intake side...
LS1
.200 137
.300 187
.350 207
.400 223
.450 228
.500 237
.550 242
.600 243
LS6
lift.......flow
.200 156
.300 204
.350 225
.400 243
.450 257
.500 268
.550 275
.600 278
Easy to see the LS6 heads are superior, and even at mid lift flow (.400) they beat the LS1 heads by 20 cfm. After that they really take off skunking the LS1 heads by 30 cfm.
I don't see an exhaust side comparison but I do know the LS6 heads have a better I/E ratio, and with 5 more CC's, with a D shaped exhaust port for a better short turn radius I'll bet the exhaust side also has comparable gains over the LS1 head.
For starters, the LS1 heads have an intake runner CC of 200 and an exhaust runner CC of 70.
The LS6 heads have an intake runner CC of 210 and an exhaust runner CC of 75.
Right off the bat in unported form, the LS6 heads already have an advantage.
Here are some flow numbers on the intake side...
LS1
.200 137
.300 187
.350 207
.400 223
.450 228
.500 237
.550 242
.600 243
LS6
lift.......flow
.200 156
.300 204
.350 225
.400 243
.450 257
.500 268
.550 275
.600 278
Easy to see the LS6 heads are superior, and even at mid lift flow (.400) they beat the LS1 heads by 20 cfm. After that they really take off skunking the LS1 heads by 30 cfm.
I don't see an exhaust side comparison but I do know the LS6 heads have a better I/E ratio, and with 5 more CC's, with a D shaped exhaust port for a better short turn radius I'll bet the exhaust side also has comparable gains over the LS1 head.
11-20-2010, 11:26 AM
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11-20-2010, 01:03 PM
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i wouldn't be against using the "lesser" heads for a budget lsx build. even if you get a bunch of used, mis-matched parts, its going to be miles ahead of your typical carb'd sbc build.
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11-20-2010, 03:48 PM
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11-20-2010, 04:10 PM
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Guys are putting LS1 intakes on thier LS4's...the GXP's. I basically gave a couple I had away...but they need both the intake and fuel rail...might wanna hit up the ls4 groups
I sold the guy 2 LS1 intakes, 1 fuel rail, and 1 set of stock injectors (missing a few o-rings) for $50 just to get them out of my closet. Plus he drove about an hour to get them, so I wasn't going to try to get much money outta him...you know..just looking out for another car guy....he ended up giving me $80 though so that really cool of him.
I sold the guy 2 LS1 intakes, 1 fuel rail, and 1 set of stock injectors (missing a few o-rings) for $50 just to get them out of my closet. Plus he drove about an hour to get them, so I wasn't going to try to get much money outta him...you know..just looking out for another car guy....he ended up giving me $80 though so that really cool of him.
11-20-2010, 07:14 PM
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Guys are putting LS1 intakes on thier LS4's...the GXP's. I basically gave a couple I had away...but they need both the intake and fuel rail...might wanna hit up the ls4 groups
I sold the guy 2 LS1 intakes, 1 fuel rail, and 1 set of stock injectors (missing a few o-rings) for $50 just to get them out of my closet. Plus he drove about an hour to get them, so I wasn't going to try to get much money outta him...you know..just looking out for another car guy....he ended up giving me $80 though so that really cool of him.
I sold the guy 2 LS1 intakes, 1 fuel rail, and 1 set of stock injectors (missing a few o-rings) for $50 just to get them out of my closet. Plus he drove about an hour to get them, so I wasn't going to try to get much money outta him...you know..just looking out for another car guy....he ended up giving me $80 though so that really cool of him.
11-20-2010, 09:06 PM
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I'll go through some more crap soon. Just a bunch of junk, IMO.. Taking up space.
11-20-2010, 10:08 PM
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GMPP uses gross ratings for their crate engines. 425 sounds tasty, but then you add your waterpump, alternator, power steering, and perhaps maybe an AC compressor. Gotta run an exhaust system too. What carb do they use? Does it resemble anything practicle you'd ever consider to use?
The LS1 uses net ratings, and if either of these engines were put on the same scale as the other, the numbers would be a whole lot closer.
Was it texas speed that was in that magazine article that, using "muscle car" numbers, had a stock LS1 putting out close to 400 gross?
Lets not forget the MPG and the driveability. Gladly take the tradeoff at the cost of a handful of HP.
I have a GMPP 350 rated at 330/380 gross. It runs well, have had it since 2004. However if I saw 250rwhp through my stalled 700r4 I'd consider that pretty healthy.
My Z28 has almost an extra 100rwhp, and gets at least 10MPG more, easily. plus my grandma could drive it.
I've about had all the fun I can have with holley's and timing guns. If I could get more than 25% of what I've put into it, I'd prolly sell it all and buy an S60, lol.
Brandon
11-21-2010, 05:32 AM
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WADR,
GMPP uses gross ratings for their crate engines. 425 sounds tasty, but then you add your waterpump, alternator, power steering, and perhaps maybe an AC compressor. Gotta run an exhaust system too. What carb do they use? Does it resemble anything practicle you'd ever consider to use?
GMPP uses gross ratings for their crate engines. 425 sounds tasty, but then you add your waterpump, alternator, power steering, and perhaps maybe an AC compressor. Gotta run an exhaust system too. What carb do they use? Does it resemble anything practicle you'd ever consider to use?
The GMPP stuff is generally pretty mild. ZZ383 is certainly not a max effort stroker SBC by any means. Compression is plenty low for pump gas and cam profile will allow for power brakes and reasonable idle speed/street manners.
As for the trade off, not everyone wants to tune EFI, that's why we have a carb market even for the LS stuff now. The LS1s are great engines. I should know, I've owned at least one for almost as long as they've been on the market. I've experianced their potential at every level, from bone stock to H/C/boost/spray. Both LS1s and Gen I SBCs can be equally serious contenders in the power department, to assume otherwise would be foolish, and that was the point of my comment earlier.
LS1 Edit/HPT can become equally tiresome, if you spend enough time doing that.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 11-21-2010 at 05:40 AM.
11-21-2010, 06:27 AM
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To Bayer and UltimateOrangeSS-If you guys want to give those heads away let me know. I am looking for a set of stock un-molested 241 heads for my tow vehicle. 
I would be willing to pay for shipping of them. Pm me if you are serious.
I would be willing to pay for shipping of them. Pm me if you are serious.
11-21-2010, 08:13 AM
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Page 52 of the 2010 GMPP catalog says they are tested with a high rise intake and holley 770 carb (part number cross-referances to a 4160 style vacuum secondary carb, should be a 2-corner idle and very simple to tune for street use). I think they used to be rated with the super-common #3310 750cfm. One can only assume that LT headers are a given. Don't know if they are rated with WP/PS/alternator. Many of us don't use A/C on these old cars though.
The GMPP stuff is generally pretty mild. ZZ383 is certainly not a max effort stroker SBC by any means. Compression is plenty low for pump gas and cam profile will allow for power brakes and reasonable idle speed/street manners.
Nobody ever disputed the SEFI LS1 as being superior in MPG or driveability, so you're arguing with yourself on that one. As for the trade off, not everyone wants to tune EFI, that's why we have a carb market even for the LS stuff now.
The LS1s are great engines. I should know, I've owned at least one for almost as long as they've been on the market. I've experianced their potential at every level, from bone stock to H/C/boost/spray. Both LS1s and Gen I SBCs can be equally serious contenders in the power department, to assume otherwise would be foolish, and that was the point of my comment earlier.
LS1 Edit/HPT can become equally tiresome, if you spend enough time doing that.
The GMPP stuff is generally pretty mild. ZZ383 is certainly not a max effort stroker SBC by any means. Compression is plenty low for pump gas and cam profile will allow for power brakes and reasonable idle speed/street manners.
Nobody ever disputed the SEFI LS1 as being superior in MPG or driveability, so you're arguing with yourself on that one.
As for the trade off, not everyone wants to tune EFI, that's why we have a carb market even for the LS stuff now. The LS1s are great engines. I should know, I've owned at least one for almost as long as they've been on the market. I've experianced their potential at every level, from bone stock to H/C/boost/spray. Both LS1s and Gen I SBCs can be equally serious contenders in the power department, to assume otherwise would be foolish, and that was the point of my comment earlier.
LS1 Edit/HPT can become equally tiresome, if you spend enough time doing that.
Thanks for the info from GMPP. Still seems a bit inflated IMHO. But alas, there's hundreds of possible intake/exhaust/carb/efi combos and they can't account for everyone, haha.
I hope I didn't come off as stepping on anyones toes. Just repeating the basics for those that may not of known. I know I found it very interesting learning about gross vs net, standard vs SAE, etc.
Looking back, I think my point was that if you're starting fresh, stock vs stock, buy as much "technology" as you can!
The Joneses are still gonna win either way, lol.