help! my broken lsx 454. cylinder wall blows out. any suggestions?
02-03-2011, 11:21 AM
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help! my broken lsx 454. cylinder wall blows out. any suggestions? any ideas or suggestions?
Recently I was influenced to purchase a Chevrolet LSX-454 engine for my 2010 camaro based on information in print and in person from Dr. Jamie Meyer, the Product Integration Manager for GM Performance Parts.
Here is what influenced me (with web address’s as proof):
ONE: Dr Jamie Meyer of "GM" states in print that if you put a “power adder” on the lsx-454 you’d quickly create a 1300 hp street car.
MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview “LSX 454... With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.” http://www.maxchevy.com/features/int...3-meyer-3.html
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TWO: Dr Jamie Meyer states “In Person” to Jannetty Racing Enterprises Inc (the shop I used for my automotive work) that its ok to put a “power adder” on the lsx-454 to make our 1150 horsepower goals.
Jannetty Racing Enterprises October 6-9 2010. LSX Shootout-O'Reilly Raceway Park - Indianapolis, Indiana.
Dr Jamie Meyer was personally asked by the owner of Jannetty Racing Enterprises Dr Meyer’s thoughts of using A LSX-454 with a “supercharger/power adder” to make only 1150 horsepower in my 2010 camaro.
Here is the quote from the owner of Jannetty Racing Enterprises: Last October at the LSX Shootout My Booth was directly across from the GMperformancparts Display where I had the Pleasure of Meeting and talking with all of the guys over there one of them being Dr. Jamie Meyer, whom I ran this Idea past, ( I have to respect the man and his Position in the Industry) While we stood over the LSX454 Crate engine on display we discussed our Idea, He was All for it, and stated it would make a Great 12-1300 HP Street Car, and I should let him know how it worked out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THREE: 2011 GM Performance Parts Catalog.
2nd To The Last Page:
“Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”.
Here is a sampling of more references in the GM performance parts catalog:
Second Page, Not Page Two: “A bomb-proof LSX block”
Page 186: Lsx Block Max Horsepower Rating 1500+
Page 192: “1700 horsepower turbo engine for an Outlaw drag racer, the LSX Bowtie Block is the foundation”
Page 213: LSX-454 Pistons “dependable performance, even with high boost (high boost is a power adder)”
2nd To The Last Page: “Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”.
Here is the link to the 2011 GM Performance Catalog:
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...talog_2010.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOUR: “Magazine Article Written By Dr. Jamie Meyer” SuperChevy May-2007:
For those interested in big nitrous systems, large superchargers, or twin turbocharging, the LSX is the block for you. (Note: these are power adders) http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ild/index.html
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Up to this point I have:
(1) Dr. Jamie Meyer in a magazine article saying adding a “power adder“, 1300 horsepower can be quickly achieved.
(2) Dr Jamie Meyer personally telling the automotive shop that worked on my camaro that a “power adder” on my motor to make 1300 hp and is a good plan.
(3) 2011 GM Performance Parts Catalog stating the lsx block is strong enough to handle over 2000 hp.
(4) 2011 gm performance catalog has many references about the LSX-454 block being able to handle 1500 plus to 2050 horsepower.
(5) Magazine Article Written By Dr. Jamie Meyer endorsing “power adders“.
(6) After all of this research, a reasonable person can assume its safe to make only a relatively small 1048 Horsepower which is approximately ½ of Gm’s horsepower claim.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FIVE: I purchased the engine and the lsx-454 is received by Jannetty Racing Enterprises, one of the most respected automotive shops on the east coast. The engine is installed in my 2010 camaro. The camaro is loaded on a scientific measuring and monitoring device call a dynamometer for final tuning. On the dynamometer the engine makes 1148 horsepower (½ of the “GM performance parts” catalog claims of over 2000 horsepower.
The lsx-454 block experienced a catastrophic crack at only 1048 horsepower! The engine’s life span was only minutes!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIX: Mr. Dee Turner of GM calls to inform me that I voided the warranty by putting a “power adder” on the engine. I told him that the “power adder” was sanctioned by the big boss, Dr Jamie Meyer verbally and in print.
Even if this engine never had a warranty, it should be replaced because of an obvious defect.
The engine is clearly defective because “GM performance parts” catalog clearly states on the 2nd to the last page: “Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”. My engine broke at half of this “over 2000 horsepower” claim!
How can I denied reimbursement? THIS IS NOT A WARRENTY CLAIM, My claim is the engine block was defective. Even if this engine never had a warranty, it should be replaced because of an obvious defect.
At the very least this is a defective engine block because of its inability to survive at only 50% of the advertised claims of Dr Jamie Meyer and GM . At worst, this engine has been misrepresented by Dr Jamie Meyer and GM .
Recently I was influenced to purchase a Chevrolet LSX-454 engine for my 2010 camaro based on information in print and in person from Dr. Jamie Meyer, the Product Integration Manager for GM Performance Parts.
Here is what influenced me (with web address’s as proof):
ONE: Dr Jamie Meyer of "GM" states in print that if you put a “power adder” on the lsx-454 you’d quickly create a 1300 hp street car.
MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview “LSX 454... With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.” http://www.maxchevy.com/features/int...3-meyer-3.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TWO: Dr Jamie Meyer states “In Person” to Jannetty Racing Enterprises Inc (the shop I used for my automotive work) that its ok to put a “power adder” on the lsx-454 to make our 1150 horsepower goals.
Jannetty Racing Enterprises October 6-9 2010. LSX Shootout-O'Reilly Raceway Park - Indianapolis, Indiana.
Dr Jamie Meyer was personally asked by the owner of Jannetty Racing Enterprises Dr Meyer’s thoughts of using A LSX-454 with a “supercharger/power adder” to make only 1150 horsepower in my 2010 camaro.
Here is the quote from the owner of Jannetty Racing Enterprises: Last October at the LSX Shootout My Booth was directly across from the GMperformancparts Display where I had the Pleasure of Meeting and talking with all of the guys over there one of them being Dr. Jamie Meyer, whom I ran this Idea past, ( I have to respect the man and his Position in the Industry) While we stood over the LSX454 Crate engine on display we discussed our Idea, He was All for it, and stated it would make a Great 12-1300 HP Street Car, and I should let him know how it worked out.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THREE: 2011 GM Performance Parts Catalog.
2nd To The Last Page:
“Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”.
Here is a sampling of more references in the GM performance parts catalog:
Second Page, Not Page Two: “A bomb-proof LSX block”
Page 186: Lsx Block Max Horsepower Rating 1500+
Page 192: “1700 horsepower turbo engine for an Outlaw drag racer, the LSX Bowtie Block is the foundation”
Page 213: LSX-454 Pistons “dependable performance, even with high boost (high boost is a power adder)”
2nd To The Last Page: “Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”.
Here is the link to the 2011 GM Performance Catalog:
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...talog_2010.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FOUR: “Magazine Article Written By Dr. Jamie Meyer” SuperChevy May-2007:
For those interested in big nitrous systems, large superchargers, or twin turbocharging, the LSX is the block for you. (Note: these are power adders) http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ild/index.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Up to this point I have:
(1) Dr. Jamie Meyer in a magazine article saying adding a “power adder“, 1300 horsepower can be quickly achieved.
(2) Dr Jamie Meyer personally telling the automotive shop that worked on my camaro that a “power adder” on my motor to make 1300 hp and is a good plan.
(3) 2011 GM Performance Parts Catalog stating the lsx block is strong enough to handle over 2000 hp.
(4) 2011 gm performance catalog has many references about the LSX-454 block being able to handle 1500 plus to 2050 horsepower.
(5) Magazine Article Written By Dr. Jamie Meyer endorsing “power adders“.
(6) After all of this research, a reasonable person can assume its safe to make only a relatively small 1048 Horsepower which is approximately ½ of Gm’s horsepower claim.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FIVE: I purchased the engine and the lsx-454 is received by Jannetty Racing Enterprises, one of the most respected automotive shops on the east coast. The engine is installed in my 2010 camaro. The camaro is loaded on a scientific measuring and monitoring device call a dynamometer for final tuning. On the dynamometer the engine makes 1148 horsepower (½ of the “GM performance parts” catalog claims of over 2000 horsepower.
The lsx-454 block experienced a catastrophic crack at only 1048 horsepower! The engine’s life span was only minutes!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIX: Mr. Dee Turner of GM calls to inform me that I voided the warranty by putting a “power adder” on the engine. I told him that the “power adder” was sanctioned by the big boss, Dr Jamie Meyer verbally and in print.
Even if this engine never had a warranty, it should be replaced because of an obvious defect.
The engine is clearly defective because “GM performance parts” catalog clearly states on the 2nd to the last page: “Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”. My engine broke at half of this “over 2000 horsepower” claim!
How can I denied reimbursement? THIS IS NOT A WARRENTY CLAIM, My claim is the engine block was defective. Even if this engine never had a warranty, it should be replaced because of an obvious defect.
At the very least this is a defective engine block because of its inability to survive at only 50% of the advertised claims of Dr Jamie Meyer and GM . At worst, this engine has been misrepresented by Dr Jamie Meyer and GM .
02-03-2011, 06:36 PM
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02-05-2011, 10:49 PM
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-19244611
is this the same engine?
And in your post you said it only lasted a few minutes was there any break in time? On all the engine builds I've done I've always had some sort of break in period before pushing it to its limits. Especially when taking an engine rated at ~600 hp and trying to make 1200 out of it. Not saying that the guy from GM was in the right saying it could be done without a problem either.
is this the same engine?
And in your post you said it only lasted a few minutes was there any break in time? On all the engine builds I've done I've always had some sort of break in period before pushing it to its limits. Especially when taking an engine rated at ~600 hp and trying to make 1200 out of it. Not saying that the guy from GM was in the right saying it could be done without a problem either.
02-09-2011, 03:19 AM
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Looking over your links it seems pretty clear that he is talking about the capabilities of the bare block, not the crate engines. The only crate engine that says it is ready to be supercharged is the 376 with it's 9.1 comp ratio. The write up on the 750 hp 454 does seem kind of misleading when it talks about using other unnamed power adders other than nitrous, but honestly if you had done any research on supercharging you should have known that you can't just buy a 11.1 or 13.1 comp ratio crate engine and throw a blower on it. Of course if your shop didn't warn you that a thousand plus hp blown motor needs to be built from the ground up to handle the power and not self destruct, then either they are some of the biggest morons on the planet or more likely they did not care if your engine turned to scrap as long as they got paid.
07-04-2011, 04:36 AM
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Read this from a 09 interview with Vette magazine with Jamie Meyer.
VM: For Corvette owners who want to add power adders to the LSX 454, what are your suggestions?
JM: Right up front, I have to state that GM Performance Parts has not tested or validated the LSX 454 with any power adder. Because of this, if you modify the engine--including running a power adder on it--you will void your warranty. Youre on your own. I dont think thats too hard for folks to understand.
Okay, now that we all understand that, I will say that this engine certainly has the potential to be a real monster if you add a power adder. A small nitrous system--like 300 horses--would bolt right on. With forced induction, you could go quite a ways before you [had to] go into the engine, given the right fuel octane and careful tuning. If you use a lower-compression piston--something like 9.0:1--youll have a 454-inch LS engine that will take a lot of boost. What is "a lot"? Im not sure how far you can push an LSX 454, but Im sure someone will show me.
In theory, it would be quite simple to have a 1,000 horse-engine that starts, idles, and runs with good manners. Its an amazing time to be into hot rods.
Read more: http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_09...#ixzz1R7yVEZSF
VM: For Corvette owners who want to add power adders to the LSX 454, what are your suggestions?
JM: Right up front, I have to state that GM Performance Parts has not tested or validated the LSX 454 with any power adder. Because of this, if you modify the engine--including running a power adder on it--you will void your warranty. Youre on your own. I dont think thats too hard for folks to understand.
Okay, now that we all understand that, I will say that this engine certainly has the potential to be a real monster if you add a power adder. A small nitrous system--like 300 horses--would bolt right on. With forced induction, you could go quite a ways before you [had to] go into the engine, given the right fuel octane and careful tuning. If you use a lower-compression piston--something like 9.0:1--youll have a 454-inch LS engine that will take a lot of boost. What is "a lot"? Im not sure how far you can push an LSX 454, but Im sure someone will show me.
In theory, it would be quite simple to have a 1,000 horse-engine that starts, idles, and runs with good manners. Its an amazing time to be into hot rods.
Read more: http://www.vetteweb.com/tech/vemp_09...#ixzz1R7yVEZSF
07-12-2011, 04:15 PM
#15
Lmao, you can run as much boost as you want on that compression.
I love know it all's that don't know ****.
The typical turbo drag radial car is around 11 to 1 or higher with God knows how much boost, 30+ lbs I would guess.
I read the other thread, this engine was running on 116 I think it was?
There is no evidence of detonation, piston top looks ok except for the marks from the failure.
Is the rod bent in that hole?
If a hole was detonating that bad the rod bearing would be beat up and a large hole in the top of the ALUMINUM piston, at least parts of the top ring lands missing.
That was a thin cylinder that developed a hot spot and failed.
07-13-2011, 05:57 AM
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11:1 is not a boost friendly compression ratio. I don't think that was the main reason this happened but it definitely didn't help. I own this motor and will have hands on experience with it in about two weeks.
07-13-2011, 05:16 PM
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I'm aware but speaking in terms of a lsx or any ls engine in general on pump gas a more ideal compression ratio would be like 9:1. I have plenty of tuning and turbo experience and I def agree there is a narrow tuning window and this is what happens when you aren't in that window. I don't know about you but I"m not gonna gamble with a $9.5k engine that I can land in that window.
07-13-2011, 05:21 PM
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Not a bad idea but it says if you use a power adder you're SOL. Do I think they should have just made it right to save face hell yeah but can anyone make them....nope. Someone had to push the block and I know that it was a expensive and bs way to learn but I think that everyone knows this crate motor is not a good idea for boost. I don't even think if the test showed that the walls were thick enough I would chalk this up as a freak thing. I just don't think this block is built for boost with those pistons.
