K&N air filter damage
05-09-2013, 09:18 AM
#1
K&N air filter damage I bought a used WS6 last year with 40k mileage in good condition. Seems the engine has some crazy piston noise, not so much cold piston slap but terrible rattle clattering at low rpms. After ALOT of BS at three dealers I'm sure I've discovered the cause of all this noise.
The previous owner lived on a dirt road and installed a K&N air filter. These filters let silt and small dust go right into the engine. Unfortunately this car traveled these dirt roads quite a bit(over 10k miles) What really shocked me was the throttle body, It was caked thick on the back of throttle blade with a mixture of dirt and red K&N oil. So was the IAC port, almost completely blocked with dirt and K&N oil.
The actual K&N filter its self looks fine, Its dirty but not completely blocked. Looks like it was properly installed and Maintained.
If I use Lucas Upper Cylinder treatment the pistons quiet down, but with out it the pistons clatter badly. Its not using much oil and it runs good.
If any of you are using a K&N good luck....junk if you ask me.
The previous owner lived on a dirt road and installed a K&N air filter. These filters let silt and small dust go right into the engine. Unfortunately this car traveled these dirt roads quite a bit(over 10k miles) What really shocked me was the throttle body, It was caked thick on the back of throttle blade with a mixture of dirt and red K&N oil. So was the IAC port, almost completely blocked with dirt and K&N oil.
The actual K&N filter its self looks fine, Its dirty but not completely blocked. Looks like it was properly installed and Maintained.
If I use Lucas Upper Cylinder treatment the pistons quiet down, but with out it the pistons clatter badly. Its not using much oil and it runs good.
If any of you are using a K&N good luck....junk if you ask me.
05-09-2013, 09:45 AM
#2
TECH Junkie
I'm not a fan either. I never had one in the T/A but I just took out the K&N air filter in my GT. The GM paper filter has always been fine for me and now I'm doing the same with the Ford. The 'oiling' part is strange to me, and like you, I wondered what was getting through the K&N element.
05-09-2013, 09:52 AM
#3
1) I would guess the previous owner over-oiled the filter if you could see the oil covering the throttle body.
2) I've read several times how bad the K&N Filters are at letting small particles through, but is the same true for other reusable filters? I wonder how the SLP ones flow.
2) I've read several times how bad the K&N Filters are at letting small particles through, but is the same true for other reusable filters? I wonder how the SLP ones flow.
05-09-2013, 09:57 AM
#4
Its a shame, this car is like new but the engine has piston damage. Not sure what to do with it, guess we will just drive it until it gets worse. It drives nice but the noise is really strange and makes you uncomfortable. I still can't believe the crap that was stuck on the throttle blade, It was thick too like at least 1/4 and very pasty. I'm going to contact K&N to see if they have any kind of warranty for something like this.
05-10-2013, 02:25 AM
#6
That was not K&N oil on the back of the TB blade unless someone went full retard with the sprayer, that was engine oil and carbon from the PCV system. K&N over oiling typically screws up the MAF (and you use electrical contact cleaner to clean); oil from the PCV coats the back of the TB, inside the intake, the intake ports and pistons. It's also the biggest source of oil consumption in LSx motors; it's an issue from the 1st LS1 all the way to the LS3, 7, & 9. I seriously doubt the K&N is letting too much dust through (enough to kill a motor), assuming it's not damaged. I have or have had 5 LSx based motors: 2 LS1 f-bodies, 2 5.3 trucks and 1 LS3 vette; ALL have PCV oil consumption issues and 3 have had K&Ns - `99 SS, `03 Yukon and `06 Z71. The `02 SS and `13 Grand Sport had/have Donaldson filters.
GM top end cleaner can get rid of the carbon build up and can get rid of some detonation cause by it. Yes the detonation can be so bad, even at low rpm, it sounds like someone is rattling a can of marbles under the hood. I put a catch can on the vette asap to save it from the detonation issues I fought with my f-bodies. My f-bodies' valve train was also very noisy but there some valve train issues that can cause loud tapping noises that aren't uncommon. It's hard to say with out hearing the noise.
I mean I agree the K&N are junk but for other reasons; like they really don't show a gain over a paper filter. I've only bought 1, the other 2 came with the vehicle and I haven't changed them.
GM top end cleaner can get rid of the carbon build up and can get rid of some detonation cause by it. Yes the detonation can be so bad, even at low rpm, it sounds like someone is rattling a can of marbles under the hood. I put a catch can on the vette asap to save it from the detonation issues I fought with my f-bodies. My f-bodies' valve train was also very noisy but there some valve train issues that can cause loud tapping noises that aren't uncommon. It's hard to say with out hearing the noise.
I mean I agree the K&N are junk but for other reasons; like they really don't show a gain over a paper filter. I've only bought 1, the other 2 came with the vehicle and I haven't changed them.
Last edited by Kurt D; 05-10-2013 at 03:09 AM.
05-10-2013, 04:41 AM
#7
TECH Regular
That was not K&N oil on the back of the TB blade unless someone went full retard with the sprayer, that was engine oil and carbon from the PCV system. K&N over oiling typically screws up the MAF (and you use electrical contact cleaner to clean); oil from the PCV coats the back of the TB, inside the intake, the intake ports and pistons. It's also the biggest source of oil consumption in LSx motors; it's an issue from the 1st LS1 all the way to the LS3, 7, & 9. I seriously doubt the K&N is letting too much dust through (enough to kill a motor), assuming it's not damaged. I have or have had 5 LSx based motors: 2 LS1 f-bodies, 2 5.3 trucks and 1 LS3 vette; ALL have PCV oil consumption issues and 3 have had K&Ns - `99 SS, `03 Yukon and `06 Z71. The `02 SS and `13 Grand Sport had/have Donaldson filters.
GM top end cleaner can get rid of the carbon build up and can get rid of some detonation cause by it. Yes the detonation can be so bad, even at low rpm, it sounds like someone is rattling a can of marbles under the hood. I put a catch can on the vette asap to save it from the detonation issues I fought with my f-bodies. My f-bodies' valve train was also very noisy but there some valve train issues that can cause loud tapping noises that aren't uncommon. It's hard to say with out hearing the noise.
I mean I agree the K&N are junk but for other reasons; like they really don't show a gain over a paper filter. I've only bought 1, the other 2 came with the vehicle and I haven't changed them.
GM top end cleaner can get rid of the carbon build up and can get rid of some detonation cause by it. Yes the detonation can be so bad, even at low rpm, it sounds like someone is rattling a can of marbles under the hood. I put a catch can on the vette asap to save it from the detonation issues I fought with my f-bodies. My f-bodies' valve train was also very noisy but there some valve train issues that can cause loud tapping noises that aren't uncommon. It's hard to say with out hearing the noise.
I mean I agree the K&N are junk but for other reasons; like they really don't show a gain over a paper filter. I've only bought 1, the other 2 came with the vehicle and I haven't changed them.
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05-10-2013, 08:55 AM
#8
Normally I would agree but this is a little different. The PCV system in this car is NOT pushing oil into the intake, its dry. The build up on the throttle plate was RED OIL mixed with SILT. The car was driven in VERY dusty condition for at least 10k miles. The IAC port is packed with the same mixture of RED OIL AND SILT.
I pulled the pcv system apart and it has very very little engine oil in it and its not red.........I don't think the AIR FILTER was over oiled. The maf had the same mixture of red oil and silt on it.
I've owned a few of these cars with PCV oil problems and the IAC and throttle plate NEVER got covered in RED OIL AND SILT.
The piston noise is unusual to say the least, It sounds like a diesel cold BUT doesn't knock, it rattles cold then warmed up it clatters. No other way to explain it. I've owned 2 other LS1s that had piston slap, it goes away after a few mins. This noise NEVER goes away unless I add LUCAS to the FUEL, then its quiet.
I have to assume you didn't read through my entire post......The previous owner lived on a dirt road and installed a K&N air filter. These filters let silt and small dust go right into the engine. Unfortunately this car traveled these dirt roads quite a bit(over 10k miles) What really shocked me was the throttle body, It was caked thick on the back of throttle blade with a mixture of dirt and red K&N oil. So was the IAC port, almost completely blocked with dirt and K&N oil.
The Engine noise is mechanical, If it was pinging or detonation this badly the PCM would be pulling timing and the pistons would be junk by now. It clatters so bad on a hot start its just stupid. The cars runs very well.
I pulled the pcv system apart and it has very very little engine oil in it and its not red.........I don't think the AIR FILTER was over oiled. The maf had the same mixture of red oil and silt on it.
I've owned a few of these cars with PCV oil problems and the IAC and throttle plate NEVER got covered in RED OIL AND SILT.
The piston noise is unusual to say the least, It sounds like a diesel cold BUT doesn't knock, it rattles cold then warmed up it clatters. No other way to explain it. I've owned 2 other LS1s that had piston slap, it goes away after a few mins. This noise NEVER goes away unless I add LUCAS to the FUEL, then its quiet.
I have to assume you didn't read through my entire post......The previous owner lived on a dirt road and installed a K&N air filter. These filters let silt and small dust go right into the engine. Unfortunately this car traveled these dirt roads quite a bit(over 10k miles) What really shocked me was the throttle body, It was caked thick on the back of throttle blade with a mixture of dirt and red K&N oil. So was the IAC port, almost completely blocked with dirt and K&N oil.
The Engine noise is mechanical, If it was pinging or detonation this badly the PCM would be pulling timing and the pistons would be junk by now. It clatters so bad on a hot start its just stupid. The cars runs very well.
Last edited by RockinWs6; 05-10-2013 at 09:08 AM.
