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HP for HP is a N/A LSx vehicle general faster than one running a power-adder
I know that's kind of a loaded question, but there's only so much I can put in a title so I'll elaborate better.
Let's assume you have two of the same model car. Both running the same transmission. One is rocking a built, large displacement LS motor and it's putting down 600-650 whp, while the other car is making the same power but with a stock bottom end running a poweradder be it a blower, turbo, or N2O setup. Both cars having their rear gearing and tune optimized for their setups. In this scenario which car would general pull harder? I've heard that HP for HP the N/A setup usually has the advantage but IDK. I just bought my first LS car and am use to the factory boosted Fords.
That is a pretty tough question to answer on paper, but from what I've seen a n/a motor that makes the same power as a forced induction setup (eveything else being equal) the n/a setup usually prevails
To many variables. Air temp, DA, traction, auto or stick, driver etc.
Just a "in general" question really. Let's say sea level on a cool 60* day to benefit both cars. Both cars running DR's. I was thinking more of a highway pull scenario to take chassis/suspension setup and much of the drives skill out of the equation. Just wondering which type of power delivery pulls harder generally.
If the n/a variant is using the proper cam for the setup, I would say the n/a would prevail; it should have a more usuable, wider powerband, without any lag or sudden power surges. I.E. easier to put the power down, especially in incremental throttle imputs if necessary, to maintain traction. What say you to that?
All else being equal (traction, weight, gearing, suspension.....and all the other factors already mentioned being either equal OR equally optimized for either respective setup), then the one making more average torque through the rpm range in which the race is occurring should clearly win. Which one (NA vs. FI) will make more average torque is still a matter of several factors though, so there is no one winner that can be generalized IMO.
All else being equal (traction, weight, gearing, suspension.....and all the other factors already mentioned being either equal OR equally optimized for either respective setup), then the one making more average torque through the rpm range in which the race is occurring should clearly win. Which one (NA vs. FI) will make more average torque is still a matter of several factors though, so there is no one winner that can be generalized IMO.
Each equally optimized under all circumstances as you said, agreed; no clear advantage, call it a tie. Under real world circumstances however (which I am aware is not the point of this post), would not the n/a have a slight advantage? It is my understanding that power adders are at the mercy of the enviroments as far as producing consistent max hp, whereas n/a motors are less affected by these variances. True/False?
Last edited by CamaroWhoopAss; 01-03-2016 at 10:01 PM.
Reason: spelling
Each equally optimized under all circumstances as you said, agreed; no clear advantage, call it a tie. Under real world circumstances however (which I am aware is not the point of this post), would not the n/a have a slight advantage? It is my understanding that power adders are at the mercy of the enviroments as far as producing consistent max hp, whereas n/a motors are less affected by these variances. True/False?
I agree other than other than altitude affecting power on a N/A motor more.
IDK I've ridden in some cammed, bolton, tuned LS cars that I was surprised weren't making more power than what the owners claim. Also some Fbody owners seem to post some really nice times in their sigs for the power they're making. Obviously chassis setup and gearing come into play but still.
It is my understanding that power adders are at the mercy of the enviroments as far as producing consistent max hp, whereas n/a motors are less affected by these variances. True/False?
Not necessarily, depends on the power adder (as N2O has also been included in this discussion) and how effective any air charge cooling device might be with a given FI setup, and/or what engine speed the race is beginning from (roll racing was mentioned.) Additionally, as mentioned above, the NA setup will be at a greater disadvantage as altitude increases - so again, no real generalization can be made either way IMO, it will depend on specific factors.
I'm going to say that power adders will more than likely take the win. Reason being that in more cases than not, turbo cars, supercharged, nitrous, procharged, generally always make more torque all around than an n/a car. Not in all cases, but if we're taking the general average, then I'm going to say power adders > N/A. Most fi and blown setups I see make almost as much torque as hp, in some cases more, mine makes the same.
I seem to be the odd ball here, so maybe I'm wrong lol. I'm sure most will disagree with me, but I feel I've watched and raced enough with both to sway my opinion that way. Maybe others have different experiences and I'm interested in hearing what happened in their runs?
The guy that tuned my car is pretty heavy in the 1320 videos scene and while we were street tuning my car, his exact words were "If you put an na car up against a turbo car making the same power, the turbo car will win every time". His car is all over youtube and makes 16xx rwhp in a 3rd gen.....I tend to believe him until I see otherwise.
Yah all those guys on 1320video are turboholics, lol. If we are talking an all out highway roll race like was mentioned earlier, torque kinda gives way to hp in my opinion. Look at any dyno sheet and you will see that torque falls off steep in the higher rpms, as horsepower continues to climb. Therefore in a highway roll race, idk how much torque plays a roll. In a dig of course, torque is everything. I think it would come down to which version could produce more torque at HIGH rpm, where torque drops off drastically. And obviously a turbo car has hella top end, perfect for a highway roll race. But that's why I said the n/a would have to have the proper cam; it would have to be a good mid&high end cam and keep max power in the high rpms. There is aways the potential that a turbo car could overboost due to component failure, in which case the turbo car would definately win! Lol...
That's why I kind of think the turbo, or power adder cars would win all around. Because both are supposed to be compared at the same hp, the torque is insane for getting you out of the hole, then the hp takes over. I think that whatever car made more torque throughout the powerband, would get it to max hp faster, where the hp would take over up top. But if the power adder cars are making almost the same torque as hp, wouldn't that car win? idk?
Since the hp is "supposed" to be equal for comparison and usually the torque is on par for most of the pull, I think it has the advantage, idk?. Mine actually made more torque than hp up until the last 300rpm. My car drops to 5100rpms on shift, which is my max torque, and shifts at 5700rpm which is my max hp. I think that helps me on roll races, and I'm a stalled auto, so digs are pretty good too lol
Last edited by Deeohgie69; 01-04-2016 at 05:05 AM.
Damn, that is an impressive dyno sheet you got there. You only loose like 30-40 lbs of torque to redline! Most n/a sheets I've seen not only loose more than that up top, but the torque starts to drop sooner. My money's on your car lol. Do you have any videos? I love how the intercooler is completely hidden, and you are running stock TA wheels. Now that's a sleeper, and it's gorgeous as well! What's your setup, how much was the turbo and components? I'm gonna stalk your photo album for a few minutes now lol...
Damn, that is an impressive dyno sheet you got there. You only loose like 30-40 lbs of torque to redline! Most n/a sheets I've seen not only loose more than that up top, but the torque starts to drop sooner. My money's on your car lol. Do you have any videos? I love how the intercooler is completely hidden, and you are running stock TA wheels. Now that's a sleeper, and it's gorgeous as well! What's your setup, how much was the turbo and components? I'm gonna stalk your photo album for a few minutes now lol...
Thanks man
I actually only lose around 10-12ish ft pounds of torque. It's stock bottom end, so we didn't want to get anymore out of it. It's a stock bottom end LS1, 22k miles on it, Huron Speed v2 t4 ac turbo kit, Turbonetics tc78 turbo (for now), btr stage 1 turbo cam (for now), stock 241 heads (for now), ls6 intake, built 4l60e, yank ss3600 stall (for now), 2.73's (may go to 3.08's), 9psi with 11 deg timing, through borla exhaust coming out the rear and an electric cutout when I play. It's actually really quite until I open the cutout, so it will appear as a sleeper once the plate cover and fog lights are on unless they really look
As far as price.....eh...more than I wanted lol.
You can see my intercooler now, but I'm taking my license plate cover and cutting around the bird out, putting screen behind it and painting it to match the rest. That way it'll cover it up some and I am still going to make brackets to put my fog lights back in. I may have to run without the plate cover and fog lights in during summer, it depends how my iat's look.
I've only got a couple videos since I've been boosted, the rest are when I was cammed. I'll have a lot more coming this summer, I think I'm getting ready to tear it back apart and forge it.....it already feels slow lol. https://www.youtube.com/user/Deeohgie6969/videos
Last edited by Deeohgie69; 01-04-2016 at 05:13 AM.
Cool thanks. Sorry it's Guns&Cars www.youtube.com/c/gunscars I was on yours already watching you smoke some ricers lol. I should be in your subscribers list already...
Last edited by CamaroWhoopAss; 01-04-2016 at 03:15 AM.
Cool thanks. Sorry it's Guns&Cars www.youtube.com/c/gunscars I was on yours already watching you smoke some ricers lol. I should be in you subscribers list already...
Yeah those two clowns wouldn't leave me alone and had a huge #TeamButtSluts sticker across his back window. The best part was when he did a ricer flyby after I wasted him. After he blew by me and got about 8 cars out I hammered it and blew by him like he was in a golf cart but didn't get it on video lol.
Ok, I can use the link you just posted. For some reason I guess you're hidden for public to see who you're subbed to, but I can add you from your username.
Nice meeting you and I'll check out your channel now....this is why I like ls1tech, I have met a lot of good people on here. Guys on here even help one another if they live close on their builds and such.
01-03-2016, 08:50 PM
HP for HP is a N/A LSx vehicle general faster than one running a power-adder 
