RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

I came across this passage in a book of philosophy I'm reading - The World Beyond Your Head by Matthew Crawford. Although he probably is thinking of bug-eyed Sprites and MG's, it fits the bill pretty well. I do appreciate anti-lock brakes, though.

"The design of automobiles has tended toward isolation, offering an ever less involving driving experience. The animating ideal seems to be that the driver should be a disembodied observer, moving through a world of objects that present themselves as if on a screen. We have throttle by wire, brake by wire, electronic assist (versus hydraulic assist) brakes, as well as traction control and antilock brakes that modulate out driving inputs for us. What all this idiot-proofing and and abstraction amounts to is a genuine poverty of information reaching the driver. What's more, the information that does get through is presented in a highly mediated way, conveyed by potentiometers and silky smooth servos, rather than by the seat of your pants. It is therefore highly discrete and does not reflect fuzzy, subtle variations ... "

"A car that interposes layers of electronic mediation between the driver and the road demands an effort of interpretation by the driver, because each of those layers is based on a representation that has no necessary inherent relationship to the states being represented. Some committee of engineers had to make a whole series of decisions about how the pedal pressure felt by the driver in a car with brake by wire, for example, should map onto the braking force delivered and, crucially, the readiness of the system to keep delivering it ... Brake rotors get hot under heavy use, and in doing so, become less effective. This fact gets conveyed to the driver in a necessary and lawlike way with the familiar "brake fade" in conventional hydraulic brakes."

"The wealth of information presented by an older, harder-edged and lighter car elicits involvement; you have the palpable sense that it is your *** that is going sixty miles an hour. Such existential involvement demands and energizes attention. This is why driving a light, primitive, sports car is so exhilarating."

(Contrarily) "BMW, a company that until recently was exemplary in preserving the bonds between car and driver, now gives us fake engine sounds, piped into the car's sound system to enhance the driving experience."

t_raven

iTrader: (12)

I like technology, and as an automotive tech, I consider electrical systems my specialty. I'm not one of those cranky old guys that hates technology lol, but the electronics on vehicles has gotten pretty stupid.

I've never been glad I had ABS on a car. It has only ever kicked on at slow speeds in the snow. I can easily adjust my driving to not need ABS. My wife's car has traction control, but it moves through the snow better if you turn it off.

TPMS systems are mostly a PITA. They only exist for the sake of fuel mileage, but the pressures recommended cause over inflated tire wear.

The whole fake engine noise is one of the dumbest things auto manufacturers have ever done. They gonna start putting fake blow off valves on from the factory?

Manual transmissions are almost gone and replaced with paddle shifters or tap shift autos.

Cars even park themselves now FFS.

I suppose if I ever had unlimited funds, I'd have a nice new Duramax and Vette, but otherwise, I'll keep my older primitive vehicles. I do like good brakes, suspension, and AC in all my older stuff though. I want my cars to actually be fun and safe.

The one thing I do like is TC for the sake of preventing wheel spin during acceleration. I'm going to be running Megasquirt on my 67 Firebird so that I can use the TC feature.

But to most of the world a car is just a rolling appliance that gets them where they need to go.

CamaroWhoopAss

iTrader: (1)

^^^ And all that **** adds to the weight of the vehicle making it slower and less efficient, and garuntees stupidly expensive repair bills after the warranty is up and the systems begin to fail.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

These concepts represent a significant portion of why I remain unimpressed with modern technology in automotive applications. I don't like new cars very much, regardless of how fast they are, due to excessive gadgetry and their appliance-like (as opposed to machine-like) operation. I don't get excited about soft touch materials, infotainment, interiors as silent as a tomb, DBW, electro-power steering, cylinder shut down or "Stop-Start" fuel efficiency measures, etc. With these opinions, I live in the minority and I can't expect OEMs to build cars for the minority; in fact, the 4th gen F-bodies were about the last such example of cars built for the minority - and I bought four of them. Wish I could still get a factory fresh one with all the old tech and styling today.

t_raven

iTrader: (12)

Yeah weight has gotten ridiculous too. Granted crumple zones and air bags are nice, but the Civic VX was getting 60 mpg more than 20 years ago. The only way to do that now is with a faggy time Prius.

NC01TA

Nice post and sums up the way it is today. I'm not a 'gadget' person either. While it's cool to have high horsepower numbers in the new cars, I just don't need more speed than what the LS1 offers. When I was coming home from a show Saturday I had to pass someone going way too slow up a mountain. The Trans Am delivers PLENTY! Just no need for more. I'm also still impressed with the styling even after so many years of ownership. While I didn't win anything at the show Saturday, the comments were awesome. Such beautiful cars. I just rolled over 50k miles on the way home though. Never thought I'd see that.

Mumbles

iTrader: (5)

Amen.

MuhThugga

There aren't any new vehicles that make me want to go out and buy. The closest thing would have been the SS, but GM ensured that I wasn't buying one by tacking an outrageous sticker price to the thing.


The 04-06 GTO is pretty basic, as well.

bad_408_vert

iTrader: (6)

Although I'd like to drive a given brand luxury car , I don't want to put up with gadgets needing maintenance which can be only done at the dealer.

Features I do like in my fbody: heated seats, remote start, obd2 display for my tablet.

Features I do like in my my dd subaru: Bluetooth Stereo, USB charger ports, Slider Arm Rest.

Features I hate in my dd subaru: TPMS - one idiot light that tells me ONE of my four tires is low.
Which one is it is up to me to figure out.

It also has to do with fact with what one can afford IMO or If one is hands on or not.
If I was to get a range rover, I wouldn't know where to start on it to fix the navigation.
I'm sure I could figure it out,but probably run into something where I need a dealer only tool.

Engine sound through stereo is stupid, no matter how you look at it.

NC01TA

I could never own a car with that feature. Fake engine sounds??
I couldn't believe it when I first read about it in C & D magazine.

CamaroWhoopAss

iTrader: (1)

I thought of this a couple years back, guess they were already one step ahead of me. I figured once the entire world is driven by electric cars only, they should include engine sound "aps" so we don't all loose our mind listening to SILENCE. Thought it'd be neat to be able to choose a custom sound like ferrari, lambo, corvette, whatever; if we're all forced to drive electric one day that is. I hope not...

98CayenneT/A

I could not agree more.
I don't need any of the gadgets and honestly love the interiors of 4th gens and I'm only 33.
I picked up a friend's car last year to do paint correction and it needed gas.......I **** you not it took me about ten minutes to figure out how to open the gas tank and I was honestly ten seconds away from asking someone at the pumps if they knew how to get the gas lid open lol, lame I know but the inside of some of these things have more lit up buttons than a 747 jet.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

I recently leased a 2016 V6 Mustang automatic with the 051 package, which comes with a 3.55 gear and the nicer 18" wheels. Compared to my HCI and nitrous 6.0, it's a drastic difference to say the least lol. To be honest I like the sport mode option (firmer shift points, faster throttle response, etc) but all the other bs just doesn't matter to me, and is just more stuff that can go wrong, and most certainly jacks up the price. Probably could get the car like 4k cheaper without all the fancy new tech, which would be fine with me

Z28 6spd

iTrader: (3)

As impressive as some of the new technology is, I'll take an older vehicle that you actually have to drive any day. As already stated above, the 4th gens are the last of the "old school" muscle cars and that's what I love about driving mine right down to the square GM key that started in 1969

I'm also not a fan of being surrounded by airbags. Think about it, we drive around with exploding devices all around the inside of the car in the name of safety... I just had the passenger side inflator replaced in my dd Nissan for the Takata recall.

I wouldn't mind finding a nice 80's vehicle, updating the drivetrain and using it as a daily driver. No airbags, no OBD inspections, no ABS or traction control...

TransAmWS.6

I appreciate the innovation of the newer cars and really do think a lot of them are very cool, but I just like to have the older cars for myself, something about the 90s-2000s cars/trucks just stuck with me growing up.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I feel the same. We might be the only two people on this site that actually like the interior of a 4th gen. I'm a bit older than you and I grew up in a family that generally owned cars for longer than average. We never chased trends or modern gadgets like some of the folks who trade cars every few years.

I don't see the advantage to many of the modern complications. I like switches and ***** and buttons in my vehicles, not infotainment and touchscreens. It would be great to see the [material, mechanical] quality/durability of things improve without an increase in complexity, but such is no longer the way of this industry.

They will have to pry the keys to my internal combustion engine vehicles out of my cold dead hands. There will be no surrender.

I've often considered this as well, except I wouldn't update the drivetrain, I would backdate it. A friend and I actually already did this with an '83 Cutlass roller. We installed a '70 455ci Olds engine that had been rebuilt with an upgraded cam, pistons, etc. Very mild and streetable setup, but still an easy 400hp due to the shear displacement. 500hp would be no problem with some better heads and a stroker crank. These big old engines are super simple to work on, and fit into any of the G-bodies without much hassle. Around town MPG is in the mid teens; not bad for a 3.42 gear and A3 trans with a carb. With an OD trans it would probably be about the same as an A4 LS1 F-body.

What's nice about the '80s G-bodies is that they will accept old big blocks from the '60s/'70s, or any of the modern Gen III/IV stuff if that's more your style, but are much more weather resistant than any of the '60s muscle cars - therefore better regular drivers.

michakaveli

Of all the modern amenities on cars today, one that I can appreciate is ABS.... I love to modulate my own brake pedal most of the time, but there is that rare occasion when that fool not paying attention decides to pull out in front of you or you need to perform that emergency maneuver. I have been fortunate for instinct to kick in and take over, but not everyone has those instincts.

Also, the construction of the unibody's these days. With the advanced steels, car chassis's has been stronger and safer than ever. HOWEVER, they make vehicle so much larger than needed, bloating cars with crap and girth that is not necessary.

Mappinsj

I LOVE my 4th gen. Literally love getting inside the car every day. It has a rear end that SCREAMS, a slow passenger window, 273,000 miles. And I would trade it for nothing.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

There are at least three of us. I just got done driving my wife's G8 for a couple of days. It's a nice car with decent interior appointments - not overly techy for its time. But it felt so good when I got back into my Firebird this morning. The door panel armrest is perfectly positioned for left-handed steering when cruising. My right arm rests at perfect height on the console lid with hand on the shifter. My foot is at the proper angle while depressing the gas pedal, whereas the tendons on top of my foot start to hurt after a while in the G8.

The ***** on the graphic equalizer make it super easy to adjust tone without having to look like you do with a touchscreen. My Firebird just fits me. It's that simple.

Mappinsj Yep.

30thanniv

iTrader: (2)

I may be showing my age, but the 4th gen to me is not a simple muscle car. I grew up around carburetors and HEI. Many things on this car seem so restrictive. It appears to me that any little thing you change can cause a code to go off. I do see how much simpler they are than newer cars. I do appreciate very much ABS, AC and airbags. After that they can stuff all the other technology.