Car won't turn over. I'm out of ideas, frustrated.
12-13-2009, 05:34 PM
#1
Tough Mudder
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Car won't turn over. I'm out of ideas, frustrated. I'm stumped and would appreciate any ideas I haven't come up with.
Car won't turn over. Fuel pump is getting power, 12 volt showing at starter, all fuses checked out fine with the multimeter. 3 month old Red Top.
Background:
2001 Camaro, Heads/Cam LQ4, 12 bolt, GTO M12 transmission, 90/90, injectors,
When I first assembled it, I didn't put in a pilot bearing. This caused some problems. Basically I destroyed a clutch, slave, the input shaft, and some bearings.
While Steve was fixing my transmission, I pulled the nitrous system off of the car. The wires I disconnected were the main power, coming off the orange wire beneath the dash, two wires tapped into wires at the PCM, one for tach signal, one for throttle position, I also undid the "timing trick" at the IAT sensor putting it back to stock.
At the same time: I installed an 85mm truck maf, with the 5 to 3/2 wiring harness. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the problem, but I want to be thorough.
At the same time: I installed a new adjustable master cylinder. I thought I may have messed up the clutch switch, so I pulled the harness out of the switch, and tried to start it both simply unplugged, and using a wire to jump the two pieces of the connector.
I'm out of ideas.
Car won't turn over. Fuel pump is getting power, 12 volt showing at starter, all fuses checked out fine with the multimeter. 3 month old Red Top.
Background:
2001 Camaro, Heads/Cam LQ4, 12 bolt, GTO M12 transmission, 90/90, injectors,
When I first assembled it, I didn't put in a pilot bearing. This caused some problems. Basically I destroyed a clutch, slave, the input shaft, and some bearings.
While Steve was fixing my transmission, I pulled the nitrous system off of the car. The wires I disconnected were the main power, coming off the orange wire beneath the dash, two wires tapped into wires at the PCM, one for tach signal, one for throttle position, I also undid the "timing trick" at the IAT sensor putting it back to stock.
At the same time: I installed an 85mm truck maf, with the 5 to 3/2 wiring harness. I'm sure this has nothing to do with the problem, but I want to be thorough.
At the same time: I installed a new adjustable master cylinder. I thought I may have messed up the clutch switch, so I pulled the harness out of the switch, and tried to start it both simply unplugged, and using a wire to jump the two pieces of the connector.
I'm out of ideas.
12-13-2009, 06:47 PM
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Tough Mudder
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That's a good question. I don't know. I dropped the starter down so that icould check that, then realized that the starter grounds through the bolts.
I guess I could drop the starter again, attach an alligator clip to the multimeter and clip it to the small terminal, reinstall the starter and have my wife turn the ignition.
I guess I could drop the starter again, attach an alligator clip to the multimeter and clip it to the small terminal, reinstall the starter and have my wife turn the ignition.
12-13-2009, 07:46 PM
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Have you tried to jump the starter? Try that and if it starts it could be the fuse able link going to the starter. The one on the trans am was bad and i beat myself up trying to figure out why it wouldnt start. the link is about 6 inches up the small wire from the starter.
12-14-2009, 12:42 AM
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I would verify crank signal voltage on the small wire. You can do this with the starter unbolted. Simply hold the chassis of the starter against the nearest metal object and it will act as a ground. You could push it against the oil pan or the bellhousing of the trans, both are close and bare aluminum which will create an instant ground source. Also, I would at the same time check that the starter is in fact functional. Place a small jumper between the two terminals on the starter while the chassis is grounded and it should spin over immediately. This verifies the starter is working although kind of redundant if you have already performed the previously described test.....
12-14-2009, 12:53 AM
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Or as i stated just jump the starter while its still bolted up but watch the crank pulley to make sure the motor is turning over so youll know if the starter is engaging. If the starter just ticks buy a new one. Just had to replace one on a 97 vortec that started fine all day and just stopped engaging all of a sudden.
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12-14-2009, 01:04 PM
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Tough Mudder
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I talked to Greg. He said I could pull the relay to the starter and jump across it diagonally. If it turns over, that would rule out everything from the relay on.
I like that plan! Don't have to pull the starter again, or even lay on the ground!
I like that plan! Don't have to pull the starter again, or even lay on the ground!
12-14-2009, 05:32 PM
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I did the relay trick, car turned over! Then I turned on the key and jumpered across it. It started! Most beautiful sound I've ever heard! I switched out the relay with one from the fans that was identical to it to rule out the possibility of a faulty relay. No luck.
{This probably should be asked in the manual trans section, but those guys probably read here too. If not I can always link to it.}
the clutch petal has two sensors. One is black, one white. The black one is pressed down when the clutch is depressed. The white plunger is pushed in when the clutch is released. Which of these is in charge of preventing my car to start if the clutch isn't pressed in?
{This probably should be asked in the manual trans section, but those guys probably read here too. If not I can always link to it.}
the clutch petal has two sensors. One is black, one white. The black one is pressed down when the clutch is depressed. The white plunger is pushed in when the clutch is released. Which of these is in charge of preventing my car to start if the clutch isn't pressed in?
12-14-2009, 05:51 PM
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I did the relay trick, car turned over! Then I turned on the key and jumpered across it. It started! Most beautiful sound I've ever heard! I switched out the relay with one from the fans that was identical to it to rule out the possibility of a faulty relay. No luck.
{This probably should be asked in the manual trans section, but those guys probably read here too. If not I can always link to it.}
the clutch petal has two sensors. One is black, one white. The black one is pressed down when the clutch is depressed. The white plunger is pushed in when the clutch is released. Which of these is in charge of preventing my car to start if the clutch isn't pressed in?
{This probably should be asked in the manual trans section, but those guys probably read here too. If not I can always link to it.}
the clutch petal has two sensors. One is black, one white. The black one is pressed down when the clutch is depressed. The white plunger is pushed in when the clutch is released. Which of these is in charge of preventing my car to start if the clutch isn't pressed in?
12-14-2009, 06:02 PM
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There are two plungers. A white one and and black one. One is on top, one one bottom. When the clutch is pushed down, it pushes in the black one. When the clutch comes back up top, it pushes in the white one.
12-14-2009, 06:05 PM
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The black should be the one controlling the non start function. Unplug it and jump the wires then try to start it. If that dont do it the try the same on the white plug.
12-14-2009, 06:33 PM
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I've done it on the black already. Didn't work. The white one has four wires going to it. Brown, Red, Olive green, black. Most of them have stripes.
12-14-2009, 07:18 PM
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just a question, but have you noticed if the security light on the dash stays on, or is flashing? if so its likelly the VATS system. You can simply bypass it by doing a search on here. When VATS is activated, the car wont start. You can turn the key over, and it simply does nothing.
12-14-2009, 08:03 PM
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VATS allowed mine to start for a second but had the fuel pump shut off. I jumped mine and never bothered with it again. It was a PITA though because there were 14 key codes and GM couldnt tell what mine was so i dont it myself. As far as the ignition switch, they go out everyday. Im not talking about your key switch. There is a switch screwed onto the column and has a rod going from the key to that switch, it could be shifted and just not reaching the start point. Its all just simple things to check before you start spending money. Ill PmM you my number and you can call whenever you want to mess with it and ill come help. The list of possibility go on and on.
12-14-2009, 08:23 PM
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you can find the resistance value your self with a multimeter and your car key. Just put one probe of the multimeter on each side of the "chip" in your key and it gives you the resistance value of the key. Go to radio shack, get resistors to equal within +-10 of that value, and whala. Done. When my vats went out, I couldnt get the car to start at all. The key did nothing.