xTraViSx

My K&N filter needs cleaning. I could go buy the cleaner and oil that K&N makes for their filters. I was wondering if buying the cleaner and oil is necessary. Is there maybe another cleaner on the market that i could buy cheaper and is more readily available? Also, is it vital to put the oil on after it dries?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Without getting long winded......

Go buy a paper filter. You will have much better engine protection from small particles of debris and you WILL NOT lose the "claimed" 1 HP.

And, you won't have decreased engine performance from the get-go from the oil getting on the MAF sensors. Especially when it rains lightly out, which reactivates that oil and makes it shed onto the MAF.

Air filters are not meant to keep birds, small dogs, small children and tools from getting into the engine, they are there to keep the smallest of particles from getting in there every second the engine is running. The small things you don't see that are being sucked in there every second. Its the rings that get hammered from small particles over time.....thats what you are trying to prevent, or at least decrease from happeneing.

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eseibel67

iTrader: (10)

^ Correct. Paper is the way to go.

There will be other guys that tell you K&N still they already have the $ invested.

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

I bought the K&N cleaning kit, and it cleaned it out pretty good. My filter was black, and it looked good as new when I was done. Just to make sure after re-oiling the filter, I let it sit for 24 hours prior to putting it back in the car.
-Joel

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I guess just follow the directions and you'll get the best possible protection out of the K&N...but it will be much less protection than you'll get from any paper filter.

Or do what I did when I made the mistake of buying a K&N years ago.....give it away to someone who really wants one, for free....then go buy a paper filter and protect your engine properly.

When you start having performance issues like loss of power, stumbling or missing......clean your MAF. Its most likely going to be the oil that has gotten all over your MAF sensors. And remember.....when that happens, just realize that you have been driving around for weeks or months at LESS than optimal perfomance as that MAF was getting gradually coated with that oil. Only way to have optimal performance is with a 100% clean and dry MAF sensor. The first time it rains...your MAF is dirty with that oil. Might just be a little bit, but its instantly coated to some level.

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Jeff Smith

iTrader: (44)

What kind of brand filter use paper filter? I have use K&N filter for years and looks good in my Ls2..

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

First of all....WHAT?



I'm sure the filter looks great....how do your rings look?


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slayerized6

iTrader: (12)

use the kN cleaning kit and not the knock off autozone brand.

Paper v KN is a whole other argument....

myk

iTrader: (4)

It's a whole different discussion/argument alright. Think of it this way: the K&N lets more air in for 1,000,000 more horsepower, but if you're letting in more air don't you think you're probably letting in more dirt too? It only makes sense that more dirt is making it into your motor.

Now I know, supposedly the special filter media, and the special oil does this, that and the other thing, but quite frankly I don't believe any of it. Unless you had some electronic, hyper-magnetic, Star Trek s**t going on, there's no way an oily air filter is going to let in more air while keeping more dirt out, which is what K&N claims to do.

And the best part about all of this: I use K&N filters in all 4 of my cars, lol...

Jeff Smith

iTrader: (44)

What kind of paper use in K&N air filter?
Paper filter>> what brand of name those filter use paper so I can go autozone and look at those filters.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, its a pretty simple, logical conclusion to come to. It's been proven that they are bad for an engine.

I've been going nuts trying to find this write up from a professional road race team. They had a week or something like that where they had 3-4 races to do, all with "new" engines each race. They used paper filters and they then used K&N filters. They were pretty long endurance races so the info they gathered was pretty good.

The did leakdown checks on all the engines after each race and the ones with the K&N filters were MUCH worse than the paper filters.

I'll Paypal anyone $20.00 if they can find it. I know I read it on this site probably within the past 6 years. I just can't find the damn write up. But its a 100% independant test of air filters, using brand new engines each race, with leakdowns at the end of each race.

Puts the issue to rest that K&N filters do damage to rings.

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Ok, I see whats going on with the grammar issue.

K&N doesn't use paper in there filters. They are built with a type of mesh that lasts a long time. BEFORE you spray the oil onto that mesh the space between all that mesh is "x". Then after you spray the oil onto the mesh, that oil is now coating all the mesh crossmembers. That coating has qa certain thickness to it when it dries. That takes up space between all the mesh crossmembers...and that is what catches more of the debris. But there is still a TON more space between the mesh in the properly oiled K&N then there is with a paper filter......therefore...more debris gets through.

This is how they also "CLAIM" you will make more horsepower with them...more airflow, more power But what they fail to mention, which is on purpose, is that more air = more debris = more ring damage.

But if they told the truth...they wouldn't have a company.

Get a Fram paper filter and your all good. Or an AC Delco. When it comes to paper filters, they are all good.

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1 FMF

iTrader: (1)

yes,
the k&n has a foam element (as opposed to paper for a paper filter) and it's the oil in the foam that filters out the dirt.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I thought it was some type of very small wire metal mesh.

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fleetmgr

Here's some interesting air filter comparisons. The first is notable by the absence of any paper filter data.

http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/2/

The second shows some paper filter data.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

One of the glaring omissions from each is how the results were obtained. In the second, while I applaud the guy for spending his bucks to get some kind of data...the results are kind of apples and oranges. Unless you drive the car in exactly the same manner and in exactly the same conditions, his testing doesn't tell you a whole lot. But, it's about the best thing out there to be found.

Obviously, the paper filter is the winner in this rather unscientific, empirical test.

jam01

i have been professional'y driving my car with a k&n filter for years now. no problems with it and i use there kit to freshen it up. paper filters suck, that is my professional opinion.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I liked the professional road race teams test on the "Paper filter vs. K&N filter".

I'm still trying to find the write-up so I can get the exact details for everything.

Same exact car, 3 brand new identical engines used, same track, all done in the same exact weather over a few days, and the race length was identical.

They used 3 brand new engines before the start of each race.

When they leak-down checked the engines after each race the paper filter engines were still pretty much perfect. The K&N filter engine had MUCH more leak-down.

Not sure how long the race was, but IIRC it was a long endurance type of race so they put a ton of hard miles on each engine used.

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JeaneZ28

iTrader: (3)

Does anyone make a dry mesh filter like the apexi filter for the LS1?

1 FMF

iTrader: (1)

i hate to oil your paper air filter on you,
but using just 3 engines to prove that a paper air filter is better than a k&n or similiar oil foam type filter doesn't really prove anything.
I'm assuming by 3 engines that 1 used a paper filter and the other 2 used a k&n, or vice versa?
too many variables or chances for coincidence, maybe the k&n engine ran behind cars that were kicking up shitloads of dust compared to the paper filter engine.
and i would also have a hard time believing the engines were completely identical regarding buildup, quality of parts used and how identical the conditions were that they ran under. On just 3 engines, if one had more leakdown than the others i would not conclude it was caused solely by the air filter... could have been an intake leak letting in unfiltered air somewhere that was missed or the engine ran much hotter cylinder temps, who knows.
but if you said 200 similar engines were run under similar conditions and it doesn't have to be exact, and the vast majority of the 100 k&n filter types all had leak-down or suffered wear indicative of dust ingestion where the other 100 paper filter engines did not, then that would show a meaningful statistical distribution.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Engines were all identical down to the bolts, nuts, rings, pistons and torque specs. It was done by a professional race team that races in a certain class. They always have the same engines for their race cars.

Three races were identical. I doubt in the race with the K&N he decided to tailgate a slower racer for 3 hours to ingest more debris, but in the other two races stay away from any cars and race normally. It was a test they wanted to do to see which was better. This was guy that used to come here alot, not a company that has to do with K&N or any paper filters, just a guy doing a test by himself.

When two identical engines use paper filters and leakdown perfectly.....then the ONLY change is to a K&N filter and the rings are toast compared to the other two.....thats one hell of an indication a ton of debris is getting by the K&N.

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