Gramozeka

Hi,

the car wont start, wont even attempt turn over. The gauges do work. the security light comes on with key in start position but goes off after few seconds. The voltage gauge shows 12 volts and doesn't budge during attempt to start the car. It feels like an immobilizer problem. I also tried to jump starting to no avail. I tried different keys and 3 min wait time. Checked fuses and switched relays around. Car has no after market alarm.

What happened before. Yesterday CE light came on so when I got a chance ( on my way to go out) I plugged in OBD scanner which showed code for O2 sensor heater circuit malfunction. Since this is not a life threatening code I decided to drive the car to my destination for the evening. With scanner plugged in, I started the car and while it was running I turned scanner off and unplugged it. Service Vehicle light came on, but I think it went away in a few minutes. So I was left with only CE light.

when I tried to start the car next time (far away from my home ) I would get the symptoms mentioned above. CE+Security

I had an issue like this 2 years ago when my mechanic was checking CE codes. But after a little rest and some voodoo(opening closing doors, waiting, dancing around) the car started fine and gave me no problem since.

Any suggestions?
Please help.

Gramozeka

Just an update.

I taped the resistor contacts on the key and when inserted the security is blinking, so it seems that vats is functioning ok.

96SilverZ

iTrader: (2)

can you hear your starter engaging?

Gramozeka

Problem solved for now

96SilverZ The starter was not heard from. I only heard few relays click in the left side of the engine bay.

It turned out to be a starter relay, even though I have switched them around b4 to no avail I followed the procedure outlined below.

1. check is Vats is functioning. I taped over the resistor on the key and inserted in to the ignition, the security light started blinking. without the tape the light was on for a few seconds during attempted starts. VATS not the culprit.

2. check fuses

3. check battery posts for corrosion, by unscrewing them and inspecting

4. Removed starter relay. Remember which way to put it back.

5. Apply DMM (test light also can be used. DMM should be set to VDC range 00.00 ) to the relay socket were pins 85 and 86 are connected. If looking at the fuse box from left fender it will be the lower right and the upper left contact for the relay. I am writing this from memory so check urself, schematic is attached. I am not responsible for any damage that might occur if something will short circuit. Note: the schematic and pin numbering on the relay does not accurately correspond to physical pin location, refer to the bottom of the relay for correct pin number.

6. Ask helper to turn ignition to attempt to start the car and observed a 12V reading. That means the PCM supplies voltage to the relay and it is not at fault.

7. Since I did not have full schematic I did not know if the +12v is always applied to pin 80 and therefore I applied negative DMM lead to where pin 87 plugs in and the applied positive lead to positive battery post. Observed correct polarity which made me a little happier and means that starter is wired correctly.

8. Took a good gauge short piece of wire and with ignition off, quickly connected pin 87 to positive battery post and heard starter turn. If looking from the left fender it is the left lower pin. Now I was very happy. At this moment it seemed to be relay, that was the problem.

From here on I connected jumper cables, cuz the battery was very week by this time, with ignition on I started the car by jumping pin 87 again.

9. Replace/install new relay.

10. Drive the car, to recharge the battery.

Hopefully this helps some one.

for me this is not the end of the story, cuz after I drove the car for an hour I tried restarting it and there was no problem with anything, I will do this again in the morning.

If the extent of your problem is more then mine follow this troubleshooting procedure for Starter Solenoid Does Not Click in the attached document. Open it with internet browser it is an htm file.

Also attached a starter circuit schematic.

Sorry for grammatical errors but after spending an hour in a windy 20F evening troubleshooting the car, the grammar is not my priority.

Gramozeka

So for the final word. After starting the car by manually connecting appropriate terminals on the starter relay socket the car operates normally with old relays.

CRCustoms

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the awesome info. I have a question that may add to the usefulness of this thread:

If at step 8, a heavy gauge wire to pin 87 and get sparks from the battery but no starter sound/ no clicking/ no noise whatsoever, should that diagnose a seized starter? (this is what happened to me)

Also: the starter/ starter solenoid are the same part from the info I got from looking at pics of new starters... Can somebody verify this?