WarmWeatherBird

Hi All!
I've got a 2002 TransAm and would love to get some help from anyone who has replaced their AC idler pulley. I replaced the idler and tensioner pulleys on my main serpentine drive and then was going after the ones on the AC. Got the tensioner switched just fine - but that nasty 50 torx bolt on my AC idler pulley stripped on me. Tried everything - soaked it overnight in liquid wrench, smacked it around with a hammer and a flathead screw driver, even tried cleaning it out really good and jbwelding a torx socket into it that fit the breaker bar but it didn't hold - no dice. That bad boy is frozen solid.

I do have a dremel but not sure if I could cut the head off the bolt (saw that idea posted)... So based on everything I've found in the forum, I've just about resigned myself that it'll have to be drilled. Though still open to the dremel option.

So my question is two part -
(1) If drilling is the best option, what's the best way to get at it so it can be drilled? I've seen some people note they just pulled the bracket out to drill it - which I think means I have to pull my compressor to get to the bracket? Not sure if that means I have to open my ac system if I remove that compressor - it's been a few years since I replaced it and my brain has gone fuzzy on that detail. Or if I can unbolt the compressor from the bracket and anchor /hang it somehow while I remove that bracket. (Again - don't know if there's enough room to get in there at the bracket with the compressor still lurking about in the area)

I've seen other people talk about removing the fan shroud to give more room when they talked about hitting it with a punch. Not sure if that just pulls out through the top or if it's more involved in that - and whether or not it will make enough room to get a drill in there.

Wide open to ideas!!!

(2) Then my second question - Does anyone know about the size or a place to buy a good replacement bolt? I'm guessing they used that low profile bolt because it's pretty close to the serpentine belt path - but I would really prefer not to put another torx bolt back in there. Gotta say I really don't like the person that put it there in the first place.

Thanks so so much for the guidance!!

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

I recall seeing someone with this problem before but can't remember where the thread is.

Real welding it to the bolt may be the best option.


I'd think this would be risky and that you could easily damage the bracket.


This is another good route. Instead of cutting the bolt off, can you get creative with it? Maybe cut the sides of the head off the bolt so that you can get an open end wrench on the head?


I recall that these things have a shoulder on them that the pulley bears on. You may have to go to the dealer for a replacement. They should have the p/n for it.

WarmWeatherBird

I've never welded anything before... I wonder if there's a place in my area that would weld one on there for me?

Oooooooh - I like that idea about getting creative with the cutting. I could try to trim those edges off and see if it's deep enough to get a socket on it. Seems like the bolt is just slightly recessed because it's got that dust cover on it. I'll probably start with this one and then if that doesn't work then try to unhook and support the compressor and try to pull the bracket out so I can have an easier go at drilling it to try an easy out, torch, etc.

Thanks a bunch for the suggestion! I'll report back how I end up getting the darn thing out.

RockinWs6

I have a idea, take your dermal tool with cut off wheel on it and cut or grind the edges of the head of the bolt into a hex head. Next take a heat gun and heat the bolt up till its good and hot, then take a hammer and smack it good for 5 mins. Just keep hitting it, next take a socket that fits tight and smack it onto the hex you made.


The bolt will come right out and you will be happy again.

WarmWeatherBird

Sounds like me-n-my-dremel will be spending some quality time this weekend! Thanks for the advice! I'll post pictures of whatever it looks like when I finally get that sucker loose.

nimrod.sixty9

iTrader: (5)

Gold in a plastic case is what you need. Also known as bolt extractor sets;




Ive had to use these for many things including exactly what your going through. I did have to use a dremel to rough it and shape it a bit (and it's hard to get it tapped in there). GL

Elthesh

iTrader: (1)

I thought the bolt was a T-55 or maybe that was something else I'm thinking of, I forget, but would check both sizes next time. On mine, it was easy. I just used a really long extendable ratchet, torx bit and pop. Loosened and off... Because it is close to the belt, I would honestly buy another exact replacement Torx bolt and just tighten it properly. I've never stripped a torx bolt and I've removed a LOT, but have found that short ratchets on those tend to suck because the bolt head is crappy compared to a hex head. The addition of a lot of leverage from a long ratchet always makes short work of them. The extendable ratchet and making completely sure the bit is in there straight before turning always works for me on any torx bit.

You may be able to use a hex head, but I think its REALLY close.

nimrod.sixty9

iTrader: (5)

I dont remember the size either, but I had 1/2" drive Torx; the Torx bolt broke the socket! Second one just stripped it out.

Elthesh

iTrader: (1)

I guess some of those things are on way too tight. I have bent the ...star pieces of a torx bit though. That was only on the cheapy ones you get at Advance. My main Husky set is solid though and hasn't bent. I wonder why they don't use hex head bolts instead. Torx always makes me nervous because the thing always seems wobbly. Gotta hold it tight with both hands at each end or it's all over the place.

WarmWeatherBird

Ok! Finally got that bad boy out. We ended up removing the bracket, using a drill press to drill the bolt and then an easy out to get the sucker loose from there. Good Grief!

nimrod.sixty9 - about the extractor set - great idea but we couldn't get ahold of it. The bolt was a rounded head and just couldn't get anything on it. We even tried jbwelding a torx 55 socket into it - sacrificing one from the Craftsman set - it twisted the torx. Went in straight - spit it out like a gumball and it came out twisted - kind of candy cane style. The other torx we tried - chipped a couple of its teeth off when it stripped. That was one frozen bolt. I did find ONE set that I would have loved to try that was made by a company called Lisle that has torx extractors. I believe the part number was 62110 - and it was a set of 4 that includes the 55 - but it was only available online. So something to consider if someone else is giving it a go. I didn't want to wait for them to arrive though - I had my dad to help me over the weekend and that's when it had to be done!

After I got there to work on it - I realized that while I'd done a great job of putting the dremel cutting wheels in the car - I'd gone off and left the dremel on the counter 200 miles away. (insert me beating head on steering wheel) A quick pass of craigslist didn't show me anything fabulous that I could pick up cheap and local - so I gave up on the idea of cutting the bolt head to a hex shape and the decision was made to just bite the bullet & pull the bracket.

We had to unbolt the AC compressor to get at the bracket - so we started out supporting the compressor with a spare jack stand. There are 4 bolts (2 top and 2 bottom) that hold the compressor to the bracket - and then 4 more bolts (2 top and 2 bottom) that hold the bracket to the block. The bolts are pretty easy to see - but if anyone needs the diagram - I have it.


Three of the four bolts that bolt the bracket to the car are actually accessible with the compressor still on there - but there's a fourth on the bottom half of the bracket that the head is completely blocked by the compressor and you can't get at it until you take that compressor totally free of the bracket.

Here's a picture of the bracket (looking up from beneath the car) where it sits up against the compressor when it's installed. (this one is actually after we got the pulley off - but you can see how it fits and what you have to remove)




Here's a couple pics of the bracket itself once removed:







We were a little worried about having to disturb the AC system - but the hard lines coming off the back of the compressor connected on to some flexible tube - so once we got the bracket loose we figured out that the compressor would actually rest pretty well on the sway bar without disturbing anything and so we pulled the jack stand out of the way.

We worked the bracket up and out through the top, soaked it with a bunch more PB blaster and gave it a good scrub before putting it in the drill press. Then it was just a matter of testing the drill bit sets until we found one that would bite - used a bit of gun oil to help it along (holds up to that AR bolt heat, figured it could hold up to the drill) and FINALLY got a big enough hole in it that we could get an easy out to bite. Relocated it to the vise with the breaker bar with an easy out and got that sucker to break loose.

Then we needed a replacement bolt. Found one at OReilley's though you could probably find them most places. One thing I saw asked a lot but not answered was about the Firebird A/C idler pulley bolt replacement bolt size - so before I lose my pictures and forget - here's the size and a picture of the packaging and how it compares to what was pulled out. No one had a part number on it (believe me - I looked) just the part number for the pulley and bolt together. So I took the original to the store to find a match. I got a pack of 4 of these bolts for right around $4. This fit my bracket which came out of a 2002 WS6 Firebird - Part number stamped on it 12556677.




10.9 hardness rating and as far as the size, the package says:
M10-1.50 x 40mm. Hex Head Cap Screws. Fit like a glove & works like a champ. The bolt that we took out had a little collar around the top - but it didn't impact how anything fit or worked. So this was the replacement.

A couple pics of the original bolt, replacement, packaging and how it fits in the car. In my best Ghostbusters: That's the one that got me.










As you can see in the pictures - there is plenty of clearance between the head of that bolt and the belts. (I was worried maybe that's why they'd used the torx bolt - but it turns out they just went there because they were a-holes)

So - TahDah! Another pulley swapped out and another squeak killed. Now I've got to investigate what I think is the harmonic balancer. Seems to have a little chirp to it too... And one more piece of fabulous news - I figured out how to find Gatorback belts locally. But I'll not muddy the string and post that info up separately.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for posting back with the final details!

It looks to me like that bolt was picked for ease of assembly at the factory. (Not later maintenance.) I doubt its easy to come across bolts with that tip, having a normal and flat hex head. (You'll notice that the other similar hex head bolts have really tall heads, which probably doesn't work in that location, so close to the other belts.)

nimrod.sixty9

iTrader: (5)

No, he's right. They're ********...

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

******** do something on purpose to inflict distress. (Like modifying someone elses' post.)

I'm just saying that there must be a reason for this odd bolt. I really don't think it was put there to curse us decades in to the future.

WarmWeatherBird

Ahem - actually *SHE's* right. Notice what's left of my manicure in the photos, gents!

It probably just comes down to finances or inventory. I'd guess either they had a huge cache of them left over from something else that they decided to use in that spot or somebody offered 'em a deal they couldn't refuse on a ton of them. But whoever approved it - Wildly Inconsiderate & Total A-hole.

I have a similar opinion about a ground bolt that I had to access when doing the big 3. It's practically under the passenger seat. I had to use 3 extensions, a universal - and that's after I got all the parts blocking it out of the way. Seems like whoever decided to put that there was just having a bad day and took it out on me n my car. That, or was just a tool.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Totally busted.

We'll put nimrod.sixty9 on double secret probation for that one!

WarmWeatherBird

LOL! Cause he was already on probation, right?

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

He is an esteemed and scholarly member - just probably not in to manicures. I'm going to chalk that up as being a very positive thing.