dailydriver

over $1600.00 to (Just, NO engine work) pull out and re-install an LS1 out of/back into a 4th gen?!?!?

Besides just being outright rip-offs??

Does the factory manual/repair sites tell them the engine HAS TO come out from the bottom?????

DietCoke

iTrader: (18)

Why would you take it out the top if you had a lift? Takes half the time out the bottom. Six bolts, four xmember bolts, two shock bolts, and the whole drivetrain will sit on the ground. $1600 is probably right at $80/hr vs book time, which I'm sure is 20-25 hours.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Me (and I am just a helper) and one friend of mine that knows LS1s......pulled my engine out of my car through the bottom.....in my driveway....WITHOUT a car lift.....just lifted the front end with a cherry picker so we could roll the engine and k-member forward on a cart.

2 hours start to finish. It was a cake walk.

Then I lowered the car back down on stands till my new engine arrived.

$1,600 is a wild wild RIP-OFF. Any shop with experience R&R'ing LS1 engines will be finished in 2-3 hours for the removal. Thats the facts.......Any shop that charges more than $300 to remove it....then $400-$450 to install it because it takes longer to install it.......is charging too much.

After helping my friend remove mine, basically by himself, with me handing him tools and just being there for an extra set of hands........$800 should be the max for an experienced mechanic/LS1 shop.

.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Shops in South Florida generally charge $1,000.

Just get a wrencher from a car club and do it in the driveway. Pay him $400-$500.....Keep the other $400-$500 in your pocket.

I could do the job with a helper myself.....after doing it with my friend. Probably take me twice as long, but I could do it.

.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

If you give it to a shop, be there when they start the job. Then go back in 4 hours to stop by for a visit. The engine will be on the ground.

Then you can say...."wow, only 4 hours labor to remove it. Thanks for the fast work."

LOL

The goal of a shop is to tell you a number out of the labor book, then they beat that number usually by 50%.....so why charge the customer for the full amount of labor hours. Its theft.....
A shop hour is for an hour of WORK.....if they are not really working, why should we pay...????

.

t_raven

iTrader: (12)

I just looked up flat rate times on alldata. 16.2 hrs to replace a complete engine, 21.2 to replace a long block.

$100/hr is pretty typical labor so $1600 isn't unreasonable, and it's definitely not high if they are replacing just the long block.

It might seem high but you'd have to understand why shops charge the way they do. Can you get a guy to do it cheaper in his garage? Yeah, but if you want a professional shop to do work, expect to pay book time and a typical hourly rate.

dailydriver

What I thought, just as LS6427 has stated above; even if they can do the work in one third the time the 'book' states, by using experience and short cuts, they will still charge and pocket that extra two thirds of the total 'book time', and not pass ANY along to the customer.

Hi-Po

iTrader: (4)

When was the last time one of you guys had a flat rate technician on your payroll? I promise you, the technician knows the job pays more than 3-4 hours, and if you tell him you're only paying him for the time he works on it, or what the customer thinks it takes... he will quit the next day

Guys, if you don't like paying flat rate times, do the work yourself...

NowhereFast

Do you think shops run on hopes and dreams, or that the owners are walking home with fat wads of cash in their pockets like Colombian Kingpins? $1600 labor to replace a motor is not unheard of, and is probably about the going rate. A regular mom and pop shop probably sees one of these cars maybe every few months. Do you really think they have a bunch of tricks up their sleeves when it comes to working on one? Never mind replacing an engine. Most guys despise working on them at all. Beating most of the times by 50% as stated above is almost unheard of. That's not even freaking close for 90% of the jobs.

Nobody has a problem with a doctor charging $800 for a freaking consult, but everyone seems to think mechanics are rip offs and are making mucho denaro. Mainly due to the fact people seem to think the work is easy and they could do it themselves "if they had the time" or the tools.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Call shops in South Florida...going rate is $1,000. Some will do it for less because they can have it out in 2-3 hours and they are busy shops that have other work. $1,000 is pushing it a bit because it only takes 5-8 hours to remove and then install...if you have experience with the F-Body/LSx.

But its a lot better than $1,600......jeez....

.

Zmg00camaross

iTrader: (11)

Yup tech is a rip off. Has a shop and equipment. 30+grand in tools in a box but hey work for nothing. Now $1600 mite be a bit much but they just looked at book time.

Hi-Po

iTrader: (4)

Exactly.

I know a guy who knows a guy who will do it for 1/3 of that price. I loved telling people my guys didn't work under a shade tree. $1,600 might be a tad high, but people think a shop should do work for free. The overhead in a shop is absolutely insane.

Zmg00camaross

iTrader: (11)

Yup I get a fair amount of side work. But get this guy can do it for a hundred less. I say go there then. Month ago a guy went somewhere else. The next week he ask me if I could get it to run right. " never ran right since he worked on it" fixed it in 5 minutes, he didn't save any money after that.

NowhereFast

Long Island is a much more expensive place to live. Everything is more money here. Prices depend on the area.

t_raven

iTrader: (12)

Are you willing to pay extra if it takes longer than what they quote? Flat rate times are beneficial to both shops and customers.

People can sit and claim they can do a repair in this or that amount of time and shops shouldn't charge more than that, but go work as a flat rate tech for a while and we'll see if you still agree.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I would pay the shop hourly rate....for the exact amount of time it takes to pull the engine. Not some ridiculous estimate out of a book that every one of us KNOWS is complete BS. If a mechanic at any dealership in this country actually took as long as the book hours say it does to complete each job....they will get fired.

Any shop that CANNOT remove an engine with a lift and every tool needed......in 2-3 hours....they are not that good.

.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

No, why would I pay more than a given quote? I've never been to a shop in South Florida that has given me a quote and it ended up costing more. I wouldn't pay it.....
Thats what a quote is. If they go over then they are incompetent or they have no idea how to give a proper quote.....which in turn means they are incompetent.

My friends in Lauderdale that work at dealers always beat the labor book, and in some cases beat it badly. But dealerships are the suckers shop....
Warranty jobs they get, tthey even rush through faster because warranty work they do pays them LESS per hour of work they do.

But I'm talking about private shops, and so is the OP. You should only pay for the hours that were actually done. What idiot would want to pay for 12 hours of labor when it only takes 2-3 hours to complete a job. Sure as hell not me....

Your engine is out and sitting on the ground in 2-3 hours and you're paying $100 bucks an hour while they stand around and drink beer or go home....hahaha....not me man.

.

NowhereFast

Yeah that's exactly what happens. What kind of shade tree rip off mechanics do you talk to? You pay for the job, not the hours.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

YES...thats exactly what happens...if you're dumb enough to let it happen.

Mike Norris of Norris Motorsports put my entire car together when his shop was in Orlando...everything you see in my sig went in at one time back in 2002...except it was a 436ci stroker engine originally. I paid exactly that amount, not a penny less or a penny more.
I got a quote for LABOR HOURS required to complete everything...every items was listed on the quote and how many HOURS each part or project took to complete. Then it had a labor hour total at the bottom. Thats why shops have signs saying in big print how much they charge PER SHOP HOUR hanging on the wall. You pay by the HOUR...not the job....everywhere.

I also used Mecedo Motorsports in Orlando and Lashway Motorsports in Ft. Lauderdale.

I guess those are all shitty shops in your opinion....lol

My brand new Jakes Stage 4 transmission ((sorry Jake, I got a never used Stage 4, for Stage 3 price, lol) is in a crate ready to ship from a shop in Texas who doesnt need it anymore.....two shops in Ft. Lauderdale quoted me BY THE LABOR HOUR to complete the install job. Shops that have done dozens of 4L80E swaps into F-Bodys. They listed how many HOURS the job will take to install it. If I was standing there the entire time watching, and it took 3 hours less, I would not pay for those 3 hours....I would pay my bill and drive away. I wouldn't drive away and keep paying for 3 more labor hours that are NOT being done.....lol.....Thats just plain stupid....
Who the hell does this....????

This is why honest shops will even tell you..."hey if it takes less time to do the job it will be cheaper." If you have never heard that from a shop, than the shops in your area are dirtbags. Good shops also welcome you to stop by anytime to see the progress of the job/project.

Dealerships too.....you pay by the labor book hour, not BY THE JOB. What the hell are you talking about.

.

t_raven

iTrader: (12)

I understand what you're saying but that's not how the industry works. I've been a tech for 12 years. I've worked at dealers and independent shops. Shops charge book time, it's just industry standard. They obviously have the freedom to adjust those times and their customers have the freedom to either pay them or go some where else.

My response to people that complain about how something is done is if you think you have a better way, start a shop and put all of your competitors out of business. We'll see how long your shops lasts if you only charge for the time you think a job should really take.