Lt1slowerbird

95 Trans am. Passenger headlight pops up, driverside motor won't even run. Has the brass gear, worked fine through a freezing rain storm and closed properly when I parked car in garage. Next day it wouldn't open, unclicked connector from motor and blew it out. Still won't work, can hand crank the light up, I noticed the cover on back of the motor is a little loose up top, however it cranks up fine manually. So the motor should atleast run right? Checked the 2 fused in engine bay both looked fine. The actual light works as should. Will not run whether headlight is open or closed. What could this be?

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Common problem. If you look at the sticky in the Firebird forum on headlights, this was just discussed the other day.

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

I'll go ahead and help you out with this one.
The back of the motor cover really has way to much tension on it for epoxy alone to be reliable enough to hold it. When it comes out the gear mis-aligns and puts more pressure on the unit as its no longer in its most efficient configuration. The additional pressure triggers the circuit breaker which is used to shut down the system when it thinks its all the way up or done. There's two fixes for this, and in whichever one you choose I recommend replacing the brass gear with a hollow brass gear.

#1 Buy a brace (I "think" they're on eBay but dont quote me on this) - the brace attaches to the assemblies bolts and keeps the cover intact. I personally tried this but it didn't work for me as it put too much pressure on the unit anyway.

#2 - Most recommended, purchase a BRAND NEW (NOT REMANUFACTURED) Dorman Unit from <anywhere fine Doorman products are sold>. It's not the cheapest way to go, however; the assembly which keeps the gear in place is held together by its own screws, no epoxy or any brace necessary, swap the gear, make SURE the gear is centered in the housing...you MAY need to replace the washer with a SLIGHTLY thicker washer on the housing door for the gear as those washers are thin and allow the gear to have too much play...I had this problem and kept stripping METAL gears until I figured out what was causing it. After I replaced the washer, permanent fix. Also... if you go this route, you "WILL" have to replace the wiring connector on the Headlight Motor side with a Delphi or Marine Grade connectors... Otherwise they will rust out in a couple of rains and you wont have headlights all the sudden. - This method will cost in the ball park of $200...but you will never ever have to worry about issues with these motors again.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

I'm a fan of this option. https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...ght-doors.html

BTW - No need to replace the connectors. The problem was just with the seals, which are a few cents each and can be replaced just by themselves.

However... ^ others have reported that the newer motors are shipping with better connectors, now.

trex600450

Sometimes the electrical harness wiring connector connection corrodes internally at the pin connectors. I cut one or 2 of the wires and bypassed the harness electrical connector connection. The headlight would light up, but did not go up or down.

For future reference, use the brass gears and a new round rubber part for the gear mount to rest in.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Why? They cost 50X as much as new plastic gears.

trex600450

Because the plastic ( nylon ) gears strip. If you go over train track crossings, or bumps is general, when the headlights are up, this tends to put a strain, then wear. The wear is extremely slight, but just enough to cause gear operation issues. I used to think it was BS to need brass gears, but.......and changed the nylon gears like every 6 to 8 months. Brass gears stopped this issue.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

You should still think this is BS, because it is. Metal gears strip, also. Metal gears stripping and the problem you are discussing are caused by the motor body separating from the gear case, due to the 4 weak bend tabs that make the connection. When the connection weakens and stretches out, the worm gear only contacts the edge of the gears, where they are all weaker.

If you are borderline, you may see the metal gears stand up better going over bumps, etc. However; the problem can only get worse and you will eventually loose those metal gears, also.

Better to fix the problem, then mask the symptom.

trex600450

You are correct about the motor body separating. And I do not mean the bend tabs. I used tie wire to " pull " the motor down about 1/16 of an inch or less into the gear housing. However, additionally, the " soft " plastic gear is also a 2nd contributing factor. I think overall the motors and gear assembly could have been designed better from OEM, however that would not be good for the parts industry. For me, both cars have brass gears, new round rubber inserts and at least 2 motors I used tire wire, on the exterior, to help ensure the worm gear engages. No problems with this for at least 2 years. I have had corroded electrical harness pins.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

The plastic gear holds up fine on a normal motor.

Things like this are designed with purposeful weak links. If a fat <fill in the blank> sits on the headlight door and the motor is actuated, better that the plastic gear strips and needs to be replaced than the whole (expensive) motor exploding. Putting a metal gear in there, bypasses this feature and one would risk blowing up the motor or stripping the worm gear in this situation - causing a more expensive repair.

I think it's clear that the motor was never intended to separate from the gear housing and this portion of the design is failing consistently.

I'm not sure if having the door arm be the "weak link" instead of the gear would have been preferable, or anything like that. If it were, I think we'd be having a ton more problems than we have with the gears.

trex600450

If its ok with you, because it is ok with me, we agree to ....disagree, on this issue.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

It's not about agreement. This site is about technical discussion. I'm pointing out why a rational engineer would choose to design something this way.

If you think that it would be preferable to have a stronger gear that would not fail as often, risking damage to other parts of the assembly in other situations - then that's a fine opinion.

In the spirit of tech discussion, when promoting the use of metal gears, we should be clear to people that they do also strip. (Some metal gear providers also put this disclaimer in their instructions.) They aren't a 100% cure: https://ls1tech.com/forums/stereo-el...ght-doors.html

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

I have to agree. If the headlight motor isn't in perfect condition it WILL eat brass or aluminum gears like candy. I replaced my Nylon gears with Brass only to have it strip literally in two weeks.. not even a full months of use and its because if the internals of the motor (the washers, the internal gear, ect) aren't perfectly aligned, the gear will sit off center and will not properly mesh with the motor's gear and strip them... only fix for this is completely replacing the motor and if you DO replace the gear you MUST make sure that after it's installed that there is no play.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

It's amazing how wasting $50-$100 a few times on this exercise will mold one's opinion on the matter!

Need4Camaro

iTrader: (1)

I spent countless dollars on those motors that aggitated the living crap out of me for months until I finally figured out the permanent solution... ...then blew the engine lol

trex600450

First of all the brass gears are better than nylon, period. When I changed my gears, replaced the round rubber insert and secured the motor closer, all issues stopped. In an earlier experiment, I secured the motor and worm gear closer, to engage the nylon gear. About a month or so later, the usual grinding sounds, on one then the other about 2 weeks after. Both nylon gears had worn away where the worm gear engages. After the brass gears, not aluminum, no problems.

trex600450

As for your rational engineer statement......can I say opti-spark !