driverjoe27

2000 firehawk. Six speed manual transmission. 106,000 Miles and no mods.

here's the problem I have. so the car will crank endlessly without firing. if I take the key out put it back in and try again it will eventually start, how many times varies sometimes the second or third time sometimes the 15th or 20th time.

now here's the weird part once the car starts it will fire up the first time right away all day long unless the car is parked for more than five hours. Then I have to go through the cranking and reinserting the key process all over again.

Now the ignition where I insert my key is loose and I've noticed reading the owners manual that on a manual transmission there is a key release button that you are supposed to have to push to get your key out, I have never had to push that button.

about two months ago I had GM order me a new key and they cut it and I also have one of the original keys both keys worked fine up until recently and I've had the same problem with both keys so worn out or dirty key isn't the problem.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I really don't want to have to use my local GM dealer I don't trust them their technicians are crooks tried to tell me it was gonna cost $800 to replace a headlight motor because they had to take the whole headlight assembly out like that was some huge job instead of three nut and bolt deal.

driverjoe27

My vehicle security system light is flashing without the keys in the ignition. When I turn the key forward to the on position the light goes solid for 2-3 seconds and goes out

Is that normal?

Would that rule out the problem being with the VATS?

chrysler kid

iTrader: (14)

A vats issue would cause nothing to happen when you turn the key. No click, nothing from the starter.

I would check, and swap your ignition relay with another relay and see if that cures the problem.

It could also be a fuel pump problem where the pump is bleeding off pressure. You can rent a fuel pressure.gauge from autozone and check to see if your car is hitting 55psi when you first crank the key

My 98 bleeds off fuel pressure and is really giving me a hard time these days. Typically I can get in the car, turn the key to run, wait for the ignition chimer to chime 3 times, and turn the key on the third chime and it would start every time. Lately it has been less predictable and I've been having to turn the key to run, chime 3 times, turn the key to off, turn back to run and chime 3 times, and turn it to run again to prime thr pump.

driverjoe27

OK rented a fuel pressure gauge it hit 55 to 60 PSI every crank but it did bleed down to 20 PSI in about a minute and a half I don't know if that's good or normal or not.

It's starting to act up during the day now to used to be once I got it started I was good unless it sat for a few hours but while I was at AutoZone for 10-15 minutes by the time I got out it didn't want to start. It took me a while to get started got it home let it sit for an hour tried to start it wouldn't start.
Did the fuel pressure test, came out good.

Try to started again after re-priming nothing. So I went under the hood the ignition and starter relays are the same I swapped them and it fired right up.

Now I don't know if that means the relays the problem yet I'm gonna let it sit for a few more hours and then try and start it again. It is possible it just happened to be that time it decided to start.

Although I did turn it off and re-crank it six times and it fired the first time every time so fingers crossed I just need to buy a couple relays I'll post an update in a few hours.

driverjoe27

And I forgot the most important thing. Thank you very much for the advice

driverjoe27

OK so after switching the two relays I had no issues with the car starting at all even after it sat for 4-5 hours. Then I left the house for six days ran to California and back, the car started right up so it was definitely one of the relays. In fact I noticed one of them has a hole in the side so I'm gonna replace them both today as a precaution.

thank you again for your help

Joe.

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Do you have a pic of this? That sounds interesting.

chrysler kid

iTrader: (14)

Awesome! Glad to hear it was just something simple

Just to take some of my own medicine I went out to swap my fan relays with my starter and igntion relays. I'm not sure what fan relay #3 does, but uh it looks like it hasn't done it in a while

driverjoe27

wssix99

iTrader: (5)

Wow. ^ That's really interesting. It looks like someone (with the scratches) took a screwdriver to the side of it. With the dust shield compromised, it could have a mind of its own...

driverjoe27

Yep. I'm betting previous owner tried to use a screwdriver to remove it. The 2 relays are close together and very tight fitting.

chrysler kid

iTrader: (14)

I took my own advice, and what do you know, the hard start issue I've had for ten years went away after I swapped the relay. Also the car has stopped shutting off in its own after 15 minutes of driving, I'm guessing fan relay #3 was the culprit for that. I'm guessing that relay for the fan controls both fans being on, or on high output which would explain the car shorting out and dying after it got hot

driverjoe27

I think when I get home this week I'm going to go ahead and replace the rest of the relays.

I drove it all day Thursday and Friday and not 1 single issue starting the car. So thank you again, very much.

chrysler kid

iTrader: (14)

Yeah no problem. I'm going to do the same thing as well for mine, it's nice to have the car turn over in the first crank of the key. I was getting worried the bendix on my starter was failing because the starter was beginning to sound different and weaker than it always does and now its back to normal.