Spectator

Any help on this one would be appreciated.

History:

My 2000 Formula M6 has had electrical gremlins since I bought it used. First, the dashboard lights wouldn't turn on at night witht he headlights on, then the car would sporadically decide not to start. Both were fixed under warranty. I don't know what was done to fix the dash lights, but I do know that the starting problem was fixed by replacing the ignition cylinder (for the key). On an aside, the vent control was loose (it would turn, but you couldn't feel the notches for each vent position). When this was fixed, I found out that the heater no longer worked. Unofrtunately, it was out of warranty (90 day only) before I figured this one out, so I've been running with no heater. I'm assuming it's something stupid and silly in the HVAC controls, but I'm no expert on opening that area up and troubleshooting it.

Anyways, the car started reliably for a while, then exhibited the same symptoms: I'd try and start it, but there was no cranking, and, magically, it would start after a few (or few hundred) tries. There's times where it will start first time around, and times where it takes far more than that.

I searched around here, and all signs pointed to the VATS. So I got the right resistor and put it in the connection to the VATS module. I made sure I cut the right wires, by testing for resistance w/ the key in the cylinder, etc., and it seemed to work... for a while.

Now, even with the resistor in place, there's times when the car won't start. Most of the time, the "security" light on the dash eventually turns off (which I'm assuming means that the VATS didn't think I put in the wrong resistance) but just in the last couple of days the light actually stayed on for a few minutes (which I'm assuming means that the VATS saw an incorrect resistance). It may just be my limited experience, but I have less chances of starting successfully in colder weather, and when it feels a little damp, like in the early mornings. I'm in SoCal, so that's maybe 40 degrees with dew. Also, the "Security" light occasionally turns on during driving, and will stay on for a while, then turn off. Taking into account the car's electric history, where would be the best places to start looking for the gremlin? Based on a quick search, I'm thinking of trying the following:

- check the ground from the block to the frame (is this even related?)
- checking the starter/ignition relays (how would I even check if these are bad?)

I don't really know where else to look. As such, if anyone has the following info, it would be much appreciated:

1. A quick, surefire way to start the car without permanently fixing the problem. Can I use a trick like jumping a relay with a screwdriver? Where would it be? I'd like to know this just to make sure I'm never stranded if I can't fix this immediately.
2. Info on the switches/relays in the circuit from the key to the VATS to the starter. What are the relays that could prevent the car from starting if they went bad or failed? Could the clutch safety switch be causing problems? Is there some other switch/relay in the ignition cylinder besides the VATS resistor check? Remember, it's not cranking at all.
3. Common trouble spots in the electrical wiring. I've already taken the VATS resistance check out of the picture, but could the VATS be going bad? Also, with the car's history of electrical gremlins, all of the wiring is fair game. Where should I be looking for the most important wires?
4. How easily can the VATS be eliminated from the picture? Can the signal output it sends be emulated easily? I'm trying to eliminate the easiest potential trouble spots from the equation first.

Sorry, this is kinda long, but I figure, the more info, the better. TIA for any info you guys could toss out.

NotSoStock99TA

Mine does the exact same thing...it actually just did it again today when I was trying to leave the resteraunt...I unplug all the accessories (radar, charger, etc..) mess w/the radio and open the door and mess w/the locks, but nothing makes any difference...It just magically eventually decides to start for me...someone please help us!!

TANG

I have the same problem right now. The battery is fine, there is plenty of gas in the car, but when I turn the key...I get nothing but a click from the dash. If anyone has had this problem, and found a good fix, I would love to know what you did.

James

Spectator

I'm guessing no one's figured out how to solve this problem?

I've noticed that my clutch switch doesn't seem to work if I press the clutch at a certain angle. I didn't use a test light to confirm, but I was able to get the car to fail consistently by pressing the clutch pedal at an angle towards the right side, and start consistently by pressing the clutch towards the left.

Shooter_Jay

Mine did that quite a few times last year. After alot of reading I was leaning towards bypassing VATS.

THAT WASN'T THE PROBLEM!

There are two relays in a fuse box under the hood. If I remember right, one is ignition and one is starter. Wiggle the starter one or both then try starting it. That's your problem I bet.

Spectator

I'll be trying that next time it doesn't start and doesn't throw the security light. The last couple times it didn't wanna start, the security light was on, meaning it's not a relay issue. But wiggling/switching the ignition and starter relays has worked before.

Shooter_Jay

no, I think my security light was on too. I think that was mostly myth with the security light. Anyway, try the relays if it happens.

01badbird

had same gremlins it was the body control module(bcm)it controls all the body electric functions.mine had corrision on about 5-6 pins that had to be replaced.not saying thats it for sure but it was easy to get to under glove compartment.(actually the cover above pass.feet area.its 130 for the part and has to be progamed with tech 2.

LTSpeed

Have any of you tried replacing the ignition switch? It's not located where the key goes in--that's the cylinder. It's located on top of the outside of the steering column and is a $35 mechanical switchbox from Autozone. This fixed my 97 LT1. You have to drop the column to get to it. It took me 2 hours and I did it in a grocery store parking lot in 95degree weather. (I also had to readjust the park-lock cable after the install--5 min job.)

My symptoms: after turning the key, total silence, no dash lights, no fuel pump noise, nothing. All circuits test out fine and battery is good.

Good luck.

Spectator

My car has been starting lately, but just for the heck of it, I tried switching the ignition and starter relays. Maybe it's just me, but the car seems to start with a little more power now. There's no hesitation, unlike the slight hesitation before, don't really know how to describe it. But it might just be all in my head.

LTSpeed, any hints on the easiest way to drop the column? I don't know the nuts and bolts in that area.

LTSpeed

1st: Pull the negative battery terminal and the ABS fuse.

You need to remove the single bolt out of the steering shaft joint next to the driver's side exhaust manifold. Then, there are 3 bolts in the firewall that have to be removed (behind the brake pedal. Next, there are two brackets holding the column in under the instrument panel--each has two bolts.

It will drop out once the last bolts are removed. Mark and disconnect the 5-6 wiring connectors. (Mark them because some are identical.)

The ignition switch is on top of the column.

Shooter_Jay

sounds like it was your starter relay, same as mine. I wouldn't go "fixing" anything else until you find out it's still wrong.

LTSpeed

Agreed, based on your test results.

Spectator

Definitely won't fix it til it's broke again. My car has exhibited so many symptoms that I've gotta believe it's more than one thing causing the problem, but we'll see.

Thanks for the info, LTSpeed, it's always good to know in case.