My catch can routing ok?
03-02-2009, 08:31 PM
#105
All of that looks really great, but, how is the "clean side" which connects to the back of the throttle body suppose to "push" clean air into the engine. Even at idle, the motor is pulling vacuum, not pushing air, so even if that line is connected at the back of the throttlebody, how is that pulling clean air? Is it because the air comes from the front of the throttle blade, and the dirty side comes from the valley cover which then has the vacuum, and hence the valve cover pulls the air from the filtered air, through to the crankcase, and then up through the valley cover....I think i see it now, just had to think outloud. Also, it only works when at low vacuum/idle correct? Good deal.
03-02-2009, 08:48 PM
#106
Oh, and lastly, whats the problem with eliminating the "clean air line" than if you can just throw a breather on the valve cover and draw the clean air from the breather? And Revxtreme obviously has the catch can improperly installed in the pictures on their webpage haha. They have the clean air line running to the catch can from the valve cover, and then from the catch can to the valley cover with a breather on the valve cover. They should fix that.
Lastly, is the RevXtreme catch can anywhere near the same as the Mike Norris piece?
Lastly, is the RevXtreme catch can anywhere near the same as the Mike Norris piece?
Last edited by Haans249; 03-02-2009 at 09:04 PM.
03-02-2009, 10:28 PM
#108
All of that looks really great, but, how is the "clean side" which connects to the back of the throttle body suppose to "push" clean air into the engine. Even at idle, the motor is pulling vacuum, not pushing air, so even if that line is connected at the back of the throttlebody, how is that pulling clean air? Is it because the air comes from the front of the throttle blade, and the dirty side comes from the valley cover which then has the vacuum, and hence the valve cover pulls the air from the filtered air, through to the crankcase, and then up through the valley cover....I think i see it now, just had to think outloud. Also, it only works when at low vacuum/idle correct? Good deal.
As far as when flow occurs, that depends on if your using a fixed orifice or variable flow valve. Blowby flow is the highest at WOT/high load where PCV system flow is the lowest.
Last edited by 405HP_Z06; 03-03-2009 at 12:55 PM.
03-02-2009, 10:30 PM
#109
Oh, and lastly, whats the problem with eliminating the "clean air line" than if you can just throw a breather on the valve cover and draw the clean air from the breather? And Revxtreme obviously has the catch can improperly installed in the pictures on their webpage haha. They have the clean air line running to the catch can from the valve cover, and then from the catch can to the valley cover with a breather on the valve cover. They should fix that.
Lastly, is the RevXtreme catch can anywhere near the same as the Mike Norris piece?
Lastly, is the RevXtreme catch can anywhere near the same as the Mike Norris piece?
Last edited by 405HP_Z06; 03-03-2009 at 12:54 PM.
03-03-2009, 03:36 AM
#111
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So in this pic, why cant the "hose from valve cover port to TB OR bellows port (clean side)" just be a filter?
Is it ONLY because its unmetered air or is there more to it? I read the whole thread but theirs so much info I must have missed it.
Also, can the PCV valve be on the "side of catch can (dirty side)" hose? Maybe just to keep it cleaner?
Is it ONLY because its unmetered air or is there more to it? I read the whole thread but theirs so much info I must have missed it.
Also, can the PCV valve be on the "side of catch can (dirty side)" hose? Maybe just to keep it cleaner?
03-03-2009, 12:48 PM
#112
Originally Posted by chadnol10
I just can't stand the rattle of the Revstreme can from the pcv valve inside. Why don't you guys use the external valve so you do'nt get the rattle or is that not going to work as well?
Originally Posted by chadnol10
what is the green dotted line for in the illustrations?
Originally Posted by chadnol10
Is it bad to cap the line going from the TB to the valve cover? I have an LS1 engine, LS6 valley cover, N/A(NO TURBO)
03-03-2009, 12:53 PM
#113
So in this pic, why cant the "hose from valve cover port to TB OR bellows port (clean side)" just be a filter?
<image snipped>
Is it ONLY because its unmetered air or is there more to it? I read the whole thread but theirs so much info I must have missed it.
Also, can the PCV valve be on the "side of catch can (dirty side)" hose? Maybe just to keep it cleaner?
<image snipped>
Is it ONLY because its unmetered air or is there more to it? I read the whole thread but theirs so much info I must have missed it.
Also, can the PCV valve be on the "side of catch can (dirty side)" hose? Maybe just to keep it cleaner?
If it's a naturally aspirated application, you can put the PCV valve on either side of the catch can.
03-03-2009, 01:11 PM
#114
If you vent the clean air line, you make the closed PCV system an open system. This severly reduces the effectiveness of the system. Go one way or the other, not 50/50. Totally open, ie PCV system delete with breathers or a vacuum pump system, or closed as intended.
If it's a naturally aspirated application, you can put the PCV valve on either side of the catch can.
If it's a naturally aspirated application, you can put the PCV valve on either side of the catch can.
and great debate, and hopefully educating many people who think the PCV system is a waste!
03-03-2009, 02:23 PM
#116
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I still don't understand how having the breather is any different than having the "clean air" line from the throttle body to the valve cover. It is still a closed system either way, clean filtered air enters the valve cover, goes down the lifters into the crank case and up out the valley cover into the intake. And in fact, I would bet that adding a breather to the drivers side will only help in the process of flushing clean air through the crankcase. They're doing the same thing, except one the air is going through a tube from a filtered source, and the other the air comes right through the filter. I did read you said something about a large "pressure drop", but if there is a vacuum, then that means there is a restriction, adding the breather and removing the restriction will ONLY allow a greater amount of fresh air to be passed through crank case and thus being much more effective.
03-03-2009, 10:39 PM
#117
I still don't understand how having the breather is any different than having the "clean air" line from the throttle body to the valve cover. It is still a closed system either way, clean filtered air enters the valve cover, goes down the lifters into the crank case and up out the valley cover into the intake. And in fact, I would bet that adding a breather to the drivers side will only help in the process of flushing clean air through the crankcase. They're doing the same thing, except one the air is going through a tube from a filtered source, and the other the air comes right through the filter. I did read you said something about a large "pressure drop", but if there is a vacuum, then that means there is a restriction, adding the breather and removing the restriction will ONLY allow a greater amount of fresh air to be passed through crank case and thus being much more effective.
Open PCV Systems
The open system draws fresh air though a vented oil filler cap. This presents no problem as long as the vapor volume is minimal. However, when the crankcase vapor becomes excessive it is forced back through the vented oil filler cap and into the open atmosphere. The open PCV system, though successful at removing contaminated vapors from the crankcase, is not completely effective as a pollution control device.
Closed PCV Systems
The closed PCV system draws fresh air from the air filter housing. The oil filler cap in this system is NOT vented. Consequently, excess vapor will be carried back to the air filter housing and from there into the intake manifold. The closed system prevents vapor, whether normal or excessive, from reaching the open atmosphere. The closed system is very effective as an air pollution control device. This system uses engine vacuum and the delta-p at the throttle body to evacuate the crankcase.
You CAN use an 'open' PCV system by venting the clean air line; however, it doesn't help the environment nor does it leverage engine pressure differential to better evacuate the crankcase.
Concerning the restriction comment. Unfortunately, that's the nature of a street PFI engine with the intakes we have to use in order to maintain driveability. You will have vacuum, why not use it to your advantage? As far as adding another clean air line to the drivers valve cover, that would be a good idea if your using a non-LS1 valley cover.
Last edited by 405HP_Z06; 03-03-2009 at 11:05 PM.
03-03-2009, 11:24 PM
#119
Let's start off with the definitions of an 'open' and 'closed' PCV system:
Open PCV Systems
The open system draws fresh air though a vented oil filler cap. This presents no problem as long as the vapor volume is minimal. However, when the crankcase vapor becomes excessive it is forced back through the vented oil filler cap and into the open atmosphere. The open PCV system, though successful at removing contaminated vapors from the crankcase, is not completely effective as a pollution control device.
Closed PCV Systems
The closed PCV system draws fresh air from the air filter housing. The oil filler
cap in this system is NOT vented. Consequently, excess vapor will be carried
back to the air filter housing and from there into the intake manifold. The closed system prevents vapor, whether normal or excessive, from reaching the open atmosphere. The closed system is very effective as an air pollution control device. This system uses engine vacuum and the delta-p at the throttle body to evacuate the crankcase.
You CAN use an 'open' PCV system by venting the clean air line; however, it doesn't help the environment nor does it leverage engine pressure differential to better evacuate the crankcase.
Concerning the restriction comment. Unfortunately, that's the nature of a street PFI engine with the intakes we have to use in order to maintain driveability. You will have vacuum, why not use it to your advantage? As far as adding another clean air line to the drivers valve cover, that would be a good idea if your using a non-LS1 valley cover.
Open PCV Systems
The open system draws fresh air though a vented oil filler cap. This presents no problem as long as the vapor volume is minimal. However, when the crankcase vapor becomes excessive it is forced back through the vented oil filler cap and into the open atmosphere. The open PCV system, though successful at removing contaminated vapors from the crankcase, is not completely effective as a pollution control device.
Closed PCV Systems
The closed PCV system draws fresh air from the air filter housing. The oil filler
cap in this system is NOT vented. Consequently, excess vapor will be carried
back to the air filter housing and from there into the intake manifold. The closed system prevents vapor, whether normal or excessive, from reaching the open atmosphere. The closed system is very effective as an air pollution control device. This system uses engine vacuum and the delta-p at the throttle body to evacuate the crankcase.
You CAN use an 'open' PCV system by venting the clean air line; however, it doesn't help the environment nor does it leverage engine pressure differential to better evacuate the crankcase.
Concerning the restriction comment. Unfortunately, that's the nature of a street PFI engine with the intakes we have to use in order to maintain driveability. You will have vacuum, why not use it to your advantage? As far as adding another clean air line to the drivers valve cover, that would be a good idea if your using a non-LS1 valley cover.
Even then, I suppose it wouldn't actually make a difference as far as flushing the engine with fresh air because you can only fit so much air through the one port on the valley cover, so I would be willing to bet you wouldn't draw anymore clean air with two breathers, than you would with just the one close clean-air line.
What do you think?
03-04-2009, 12:13 AM
#120
I do see what you're saying about the evacuation of pressure to the air, but in an effort to keep the air entering the intake as clean as possible I believe it would be better to vent to air then send it to the combustion chamber. Although I would bet it wouldn't make any difference.
Even then, I suppose it wouldn't actually make a difference as far as flushing the engine with fresh air because you can only fit so much air through the one port on the valley cover, so I would be willing to bet you wouldn't draw anymore clean air with two breathers, than you would with just the one close clean-air line.
What do you think?
What do you think?
Last edited by 405HP_Z06; 03-04-2009 at 09:36 PM.