Header Hell (funny) cont. of ran into a little problem thread
09-20-2009, 11:46 AM
#1
Header Hell (funny) cont. of ran into a little problem thread Ok, so I think with 2 broken bolts removed and behind me, its clear sailing.
Not so fast, I have read in other posts that sometimes with QTP headers you have to grind a little on the k-Member on the passenger side.
I put mine up and sure enough contact. No big deal as I'm blessed by 37 years of tool collecting. Ok so I mark it out and drop the header back down and go to work. Then I put the header back up and get all 6 bolts started.
But as I notice when the I try to hold the header flush and square it doesnt go so good. Back under the car. Bitch it still rubbing. Well, since the bolts are started I push the header out of the way and use a air body saw (those are so awesome for fabricating in tight places. Well cut more, more and well you get the idea. Still no luck. ah F**k take the header down, oh did I mention that the rear most bolt got tight real fast. Yea, you guessed it, more fun (more on that later).
Look at how much I had to cut! I figure it also has to have room to move. Well with that much cut I felt I need to rebuild/design it so it has the original or close to it strength. So, I cut up some steel flat bar I had under the work bench. You can see it, but what you I don't have pictures of is templated the steel, cut it out and when I welded the first piece and then the light bulb in my head came on and I realized I had to trim that in place otherwise the suspension adjustment for caster/camber would be stuck where its located and never come and closer to the centerline of the car. So theirs that trusty air body saw again. Well after cutting that and changing my design and welding it up I test fit the headers and they fit fine.
Go easy on my welding, I'm not a trained professional and it was a little awkward.
So I told you, that we would come back to this stiff bolt. While the paint was drying I ran the bolt in and out a couple of times with lubricant, but no luck. I then, I know very dangerous, but I ran tap in. Even that was pretty stiff. I think being the last bolt, I couldn't feel it well and I started it at as slight angle during the original fit up, so I probably cross threaded it. So a lot of time was spent making sure the tap was perpedicular to the head. But it turned out well the bolt ran in fine and took full torque.
So this is what it looks like, but even this didn't go smooth. The background is, I'm working by myself and its around 10:00 at night and I have been at it since 9:00 that morning not counting the last 2 days dealing with the other issues.
So I dropped 2 header bolts while starting them, Ahh! not kidding I looked for 30 plus minutes found one and an old header bolt (which I didn't know I dropped)? Grabbed a bolt intented for the other side and finished up,
torqued it up and moved the the driver side.
Knowing that their are no gravitational anomolies in my garage I refuse to give up and finally I find it attached to the magnet I'm fishing with, of course I looked there like 10 times!!!!!!
Thinking (very wrong) that this should fit up, maybe a issue with the steering column. OH HELL NO!
This one was slow torture because it wasn't straight forward.
The header won't go up, oh remove that heat shield, NO.
The header won't go up, oh dent the corner of the K-member, NO.
The header won't go up, oh remove Oil Filter, NO.
The Header won't go up, Brilliant Revelation (you don't every really have them after 16 hours and 2:00am) I will disconnect the transmission cross member and push the tranny toward the passenger side. NO
The header won't go up, I'll get the come along out of the shed, NO.
The header won't go up, oh cut some of the lip away on the K-member. No
The header won't go up, oh bash in more of the lip on the K-member. No
The header won't go up, oh slice the top corner away on the K-member. Yea.
Oh now, won't come back down and it hung up on something, frustration which is never productive, had me yank it down. Great so I think.
Well, I need to rebuild this side oh yea drag the welder I put away back out. I figure I'll put the spark plugs in first, so I don't get anything in the cylinders. Thats when I notice the busted up coolant sensor. Thank you may I have another!
Well I fabricated up this side, and painted it then went to bed at 4:00am 19 hours later.
Header went in the this morning with not too much problem, oh yea got up at 9:00 am.
This is a picture of the pieces I removed from both sides.
I'm heading out to start the Y-pipe and wire in the Wideband, oh lets not forqet putting the engine stuff back on. So theirs plenty of stuff left to create more fun!
Ed
The headers are QTP, at first I was pissed at them, but I bought them off a guy from LS1Tech. I knew they were QTP's by the design and appearance but when I got home I realized hey wait a minute there is no welded name plate. So I freaked I emailed and called QTP. I sent photos and they said they had a few batches a couple of years ago that had no label. Cool I could care less about the label as I'm not sponsored by them. This all happened last november. Yea Yea I know, what took so long.
Fast forward to today. I wonder if these were seconds/rejected that somehow made it the market. So, with no label and me purchasing them second hand I will not blame the headers for the **** poor fit!\
ed
I will post the rest of my story as it still being written.
I hope you have all enjoyed my trials and tribulations.
It
Not so fast, I have read in other posts that sometimes with QTP headers you have to grind a little on the k-Member on the passenger side.
I put mine up and sure enough contact. No big deal as I'm blessed by 37 years of tool collecting. Ok so I mark it out and drop the header back down and go to work. Then I put the header back up and get all 6 bolts started.
But as I notice when the I try to hold the header flush and square it doesnt go so good. Back under the car. Bitch it still rubbing. Well, since the bolts are started I push the header out of the way and use a air body saw (those are so awesome for fabricating in tight places. Well cut more, more and well you get the idea. Still no luck. ah F**k take the header down, oh did I mention that the rear most bolt got tight real fast. Yea, you guessed it, more fun (more on that later).
Look at how much I had to cut! I figure it also has to have room to move. Well with that much cut I felt I need to rebuild/design it so it has the original or close to it strength. So, I cut up some steel flat bar I had under the work bench. You can see it, but what you I don't have pictures of is templated the steel, cut it out and when I welded the first piece and then the light bulb in my head came on and I realized I had to trim that in place otherwise the suspension adjustment for caster/camber would be stuck where its located and never come and closer to the centerline of the car. So theirs that trusty air body saw again. Well after cutting that and changing my design and welding it up I test fit the headers and they fit fine.
Go easy on my welding, I'm not a trained professional and it was a little awkward.
So I told you, that we would come back to this stiff bolt. While the paint was drying I ran the bolt in and out a couple of times with lubricant, but no luck. I then, I know very dangerous, but I ran tap in. Even that was pretty stiff. I think being the last bolt, I couldn't feel it well and I started it at as slight angle during the original fit up, so I probably cross threaded it. So a lot of time was spent making sure the tap was perpedicular to the head. But it turned out well the bolt ran in fine and took full torque.
So this is what it looks like, but even this didn't go smooth. The background is, I'm working by myself and its around 10:00 at night and I have been at it since 9:00 that morning not counting the last 2 days dealing with the other issues.
So I dropped 2 header bolts while starting them, Ahh! not kidding I looked for 30 plus minutes found one and an old header bolt (which I didn't know I dropped)? Grabbed a bolt intented for the other side and finished up,
torqued it up and moved the the driver side.
Knowing that their are no gravitational anomolies in my garage I refuse to give up and finally I find it attached to the magnet I'm fishing with, of course I looked there like 10 times!!!!!!
Thinking (very wrong) that this should fit up, maybe a issue with the steering column. OH HELL NO!
This one was slow torture because it wasn't straight forward.
The header won't go up, oh remove that heat shield, NO.
The header won't go up, oh dent the corner of the K-member, NO.
The header won't go up, oh remove Oil Filter, NO.
The Header won't go up, Brilliant Revelation (you don't every really have them after 16 hours and 2:00am) I will disconnect the transmission cross member and push the tranny toward the passenger side. NO
The header won't go up, I'll get the come along out of the shed, NO.
The header won't go up, oh cut some of the lip away on the K-member. No
The header won't go up, oh bash in more of the lip on the K-member. No
The header won't go up, oh slice the top corner away on the K-member. Yea.
Oh now, won't come back down and it hung up on something, frustration which is never productive, had me yank it down. Great so I think.
Well, I need to rebuild this side oh yea drag the welder I put away back out. I figure I'll put the spark plugs in first, so I don't get anything in the cylinders. Thats when I notice the busted up coolant sensor. Thank you may I have another!
Well I fabricated up this side, and painted it then went to bed at 4:00am 19 hours later.
Header went in the this morning with not too much problem, oh yea got up at 9:00 am.
This is a picture of the pieces I removed from both sides.
I'm heading out to start the Y-pipe and wire in the Wideband, oh lets not forqet putting the engine stuff back on. So theirs plenty of stuff left to create more fun!
Ed
The headers are QTP, at first I was pissed at them, but I bought them off a guy from LS1Tech. I knew they were QTP's by the design and appearance but when I got home I realized hey wait a minute there is no welded name plate. So I freaked I emailed and called QTP. I sent photos and they said they had a few batches a couple of years ago that had no label. Cool I could care less about the label as I'm not sponsored by them. This all happened last november. Yea Yea I know, what took so long.
Fast forward to today. I wonder if these were seconds/rejected that somehow made it the market. So, with no label and me purchasing them second hand I will not blame the headers for the **** poor fit!\
ed
I will post the rest of my story as it still being written.
I hope you have all enjoyed my trials and tribulations.
It
09-20-2009, 02:06 PM
#4
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Holy **** man! That is crazy how much you did to get them fit. My pacesetters I just did over the weekend I only had to cut the casting tab off the drivers side of the block!
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09-20-2009, 06:31 PM
#10
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Dang man. Sure those weren't for a GTO or something? I'm trying to think why they might mate with the heads, but fit like crap everywhere else.
Good job not letting those bastards get the better of you!
Good job not letting those bastards get the better of you!
09-20-2009, 09:15 PM
#12
Ed
09-20-2009, 09:36 PM
#13
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Holy ******* ***** dude. I've never seen such problems. Would have been quicker to drop the K member and everything out in one peice, work on it on the ground. Makes me kind of glad though, I was going to get QTP's but ended up with LPP's and they slid in without a hitch. I feel bad for ya man.
09-21-2009, 12:08 AM
#15
I had it touch the k-member on my passenger side, but not enough to even rub off the ceramic coating on it. a few years later, I went back to look at it and had this brilliant idea to jack the car up from the header a bit with the bolts a little loose. Now it has a clear gap between the k-member and the spot it initially rubbed. They do fit, but its tight.
I agree with the hell that is the drivers side. I basically kept trying to jam it in while having a cousin tip the engine/tranny up back forward down until it just "popped" past whatever it was stuck against. There's a particular way for it to go in, but due to the size and fit in that area, the way its supposed to go in isn't exactly clear. Once installed I notcied they cleared just fine.
I agree with the hell that is the drivers side. I basically kept trying to jam it in while having a cousin tip the engine/tranny up back forward down until it just "popped" past whatever it was stuck against. There's a particular way for it to go in, but due to the size and fit in that area, the way its supposed to go in isn't exactly clear. Once installed I notcied they cleared just fine.
09-21-2009, 08:50 AM
#16
damn! nice install man, probably more patience than most people would have!!!
as for the header design, no idea man, you should try and compare them to others, pics wise...
i put on some older LPPs with the regular merge, all i had to do was take a small chunk out of the driver's side, no lifting of engine, or removing oil filter!
as for the header design, no idea man, you should try and compare them to others, pics wise...
i put on some older LPPs with the regular merge, all i had to do was take a small chunk out of the driver's side, no lifting of engine, or removing oil filter!
09-21-2009, 09:42 AM
#18
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Yeah, something isn't right there. I have no opinion of QTP good or bad, but i've never seen a header install require that kind of work. Must have been a set that got past quality control.
I give you kudos for not just dumping them and getting something else like I probably would have done.
I give you kudos for not just dumping them and getting something else like I probably would have done.
09-21-2009, 10:57 AM
#20
Hindsight is also 20/20, remember I was working by myself and it started out looking like a small cut here and a small grind there but hours later and much frustration they are in.
Besides Once I made one cut I might as well finish. I'm sure I was more **** than necessary but thats me.
Thanks for all the support, mentally that is.
PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER THIS QTP's FAULT. THEY HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT!
Besides Once I made one cut I might as well finish. I'm sure I was more **** than necessary but thats me.
Thanks for all the support, mentally that is.
PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER THIS QTP's FAULT. THEY HAVE A GREAT PRODUCT!