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The truck ignition coil upgrade

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Old 01-26-2017, 08:56 PM   #201
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I thought the factory GM harness was not capable of supplying the proper voltage/amp draw to these coils. Other apps including Holley EFI claim the 12v feed wire has to be upgraded. ????



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Originally Posted by miami993c297 View Post
Hi stevieturbo,


I received the kit as show previously from Lance I contacted through PM.
Plug and play kit for the LS, clean and easy to assemble...

















Christian
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Old 01-27-2017, 04:49 AM   #202
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Testing at the normal dwell times most would be running anyway, ie around 4.5ms, the IGN's draw less current than the OEM coils. So I wouldnt be worried about the wiring.

If you needed to run much higher dwells...then perhaps at some point you might, but from what I tested I see no reason to be concerned. And the little connectors on the coils themselves wouldnt be intended for running lots of current anyway as they're as small as the later OEM coils anyway.
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:10 AM   #203
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Interesting. Good info. I would not worry about the sub harness either since it is a very short run. At 3.2ms at 12V the 1A outputs around 118mj. Pantera can confirm, but I would guess at 4.5 ms and 14V the 1A is around 150mj. That's a nice increase. Factory LS1 at 14V at 6ms is around 85mj. At some elevated ms dwell the alky guys have to increase the main voltage supply wire to a dedicated 10ga due to the increased amp draw.
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Old 01-27-2017, 08:56 AM   #204
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http://documents.holley.com/199r10662.pdf

Holley recs 10ga also. Must need it at high ms dwell.
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:28 AM   #205
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The other thing is duty....for a drag car that only runs for a few seconds at a time, there really would never be any concerns about melting wires or similar problems.

Even for a street duty car....most of the time the coils are "off" as opposed to "on" and drawing current simply because of operating rpm.

Now where these coils came from...ie Mercury Marine. Clearly a totally different environment where they would see severe usage for extended periods.

As my ecu doesnt have outputs for 8 individual coils I'm effectively wasted spark...which means always 2 coils charing at any given time as opposed to one. And even then peak current is only around 15A. But current draw rises from zero to 15A over that 4.5s period. So it isnt even as if they're pulling a solid 15A the entire charge period.

Obviously I'm not making excuses to run bad wiring...but I've seen nothing that would suggest anyone needs to go overboard either compared to the standard coils
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Old 01-27-2017, 10:41 AM   #206
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I agree. For Pantera to offer a pnp kit that uses the factory harness, must be a bunch out there on the factory harness. I've pushed the factory ls1 coil (580) over 1500 engine hp on race gas at 6ms and a 0.030" plug gap. At some point going to the IGN1A makes sense even at lower power so I can open the gap up to 0.060". But it's hard to give up something that is already "figured ".
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Old 01-31-2017, 11:55 AM   #207
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Default IGN-1A Coil Current

Hi, yes the RMS current for the EIGHT IGN-1A coils @ 4.5 MS (6000RPM) is 35-38 AMPS.
That is less than 20 AMPS each sub-harness WELL within the 18 gauge TXL copper wire at 20" length.

Hi Steve, you are not correct with your "waste spark" theory.
The two coils do charge BUT one coil "fires" into high pressure/one coil "fires" into low pressure.
This effects coil current.
This effect is greater than sequential though NOT 2X.

YES correct, I was asked by Rick Mackie to work on his Outboard Racing engine ignition requirement.
This was due to the fact I ( a team member) invented the modern DIS ignition in the 1980's.
The requirement was the HIGH RPM (10,000+) TWO Stroke engine @ 100+mj.
This was achieved @ 2.02ms dwell.

Thus they were the FIRST customer.

Mercury Racing is the ONLY Marine OEM that may fit this coil.

Lance
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Old 01-31-2017, 12:51 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Pantera EFI View Post
Hi, yes the RMS current for the EIGHT IGN-1A coils @ 4.5 MS (6000RPM) is 35-38 AMPS.
That is less than 20 AMPS each sub-harness WELL within the 18 gauge TXL copper wire at 20" length.

Hi Steve, you are not correct with your "waste spark" theory.
The two coils do charge BUT one coil "fires" into high pressure/one coil "fires" into low pressure.
This effects coil current.
This effect is greater than sequential though NOT 2X.

YES correct, I was asked by Rick Mackie to work on his Outboard Racing engine ignition requirement.
This was due to the fact I ( a team member) invented the modern DIS ignition in the 1980's.
The requirement was the HIGH RPM (10,000+) TWO Stroke engine @ 100+mj.
This was achieved @ 2.02ms dwell.

Thus they were the FIRST customer.

Mercury Racing is the ONLY Marine OEM that may fit this coil.

Lance
Even at 6000rpm all 8 coils are not charging at once, and also not pulling a continuous 6-7A per coil at once as it is rising from zero to max, hence overall current draw will be lower. I know fuses will blow a lot higher than their amperage rating, but even at 4.5ms dwell, "wasted" spark and 7000rpm....I've had zero issue with a 30A fuse feeding all 8 coils
I havent tested the current draw under high load or rpm's though, but it is something I could do in the future when everything is back together.

Although what I can say....is monitoring alternator output current whilst driving with a simple clamp meter. During normalish driving, this will read around 45A. So that's all engine controls, radio, fuel pumps, gauges and basic **** like that. Again I didnt test that one at high load either, but I dont think it would increase a huge amount.
Bare in mind half that reading at least would be the pair of 044's

Another reason I wouldnt be overly worried about the coil wiring specifically.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:52 AM   #209
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Default IGN-1A Coil Current

Hi Steve, first I want to thank you for your correct comments.

I would like to add some comments about your correct observations.
The "eight coil 6000 RPM" can be seen as four coil per revolution @ 90 degrees apart.
Thus there is 2.5ms between the need for the coils to have current.
This is how "overlaping" coil dwell operates.
YES, as the coil builds flux, the current flow will increase at a 45 degree slope. (0-25 AMPS/0-8.8ms dwell)
WARNING : When the coil is at full flux, there is "0" Ohms or a dead short. (FRIED Coil)

The observation "not tested at load" is VERY correct.
A motor, the coil, will NOT draw much current UNTIL a LOAD is present, the example of work done.

My test procedure should be clarified :

I use my CO-2 test chamber, a Spark Plug test fixture, @ 400 psi as my "load".

Work is done at the same example of an engine at full boost/full spray/18:1 compression.
These three examples are NOT added at 400 psi. just EACH example is equal to 400 of CO-2 pressure.

The last comment about wiring must include the length of the wire as in a garden hose water flow observation.

Lance
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Old 02-01-2017, 04:31 PM   #210
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So at 7500rpm and 7.5ms dwell and 13.8 feed voltage, what size wire is required for Bank 1 and Bank 2 coil packs that plugs into the coil pack sub harness? Also what fuse size is required for this ignition circuit ?
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