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lose power with FAST 102 from VS ls6 Intake

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Old 04-05-2012, 09:20 AM   #1
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Default lose power with FAST 102 from VS ls6 Intake

swapped my ls6 intake to FAST 102/ NW 102 TB and i lost power everywhere across the board except after 5900 rpm where fast outshines ls6 intake mani

here's the thread with the comparison dyno graph

http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...-result-2.html

my car didn't even run lean after the intake swap, AFR stayed the same on dyno run right after the FAST installed.

im stumped and pissed off, im open to opinion and suggestions.

is it in the combo? i still have stock lid and stock size MAF i dont know if those gonna be a restriction.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:39 AM   #2
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MAF won't be much if any restriction, but the stock lid is a restriction even on a stock car. Get rid of it.

As far as why it lost power under the curve, not sure. I went from a ls1 intake to a Fast 90 and it picked up everywhere, but more noticeably over 3500rpm or so (I had stock converter at the time and 230/224 cam).
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:47 AM   #3
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Was really surprised to see this thread with all of the other apples-to-apples comparisons of the LS6 vs. FAST intakes showing substantial gains across the powerband.

And then I noticed that you still have the stock heads on the car. Based on your supporting mods, a head swap should really wake that car up!
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:56 AM   #4
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my heads are PRC 2.5 ls6 heads 64cc 2.02"/1.575" intake/exhaust

thunder: i'm just thinking the MAF is the restrction as far as letting more air coming in to supply the FAST 102 on lower RPM
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Cutout closed= 432/398 mustang dyno
Cutout open = 437/403 mustang dyno
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:23 AM   #5
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i think the maf is a restriction to throw it away and go sd tune
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:25 AM   #6
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I doubt the maf is hold back this car
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:28 AM   #7
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I'm not surprised you lost power down low but that much and the way up to 6k?? I lost a little when I swapped to my 92/92 but less than 5rwhp and all under 4k rpms. After 4k rpms it showed almost 20rwhp all the way to redline. Possibley get ahold of a 92mm TB and see if that helps?

If you decide to swap cams I'd call up someone like Pat G, explain your setup and see what he has to say. Are your heads milled at all to up compression? It's got to be something in your combo not allowing to take advantage of the FAST.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysadude View Post
my heads are PRC 2.5 ls6 heads 64cc 2.02"/1.575" intake/exhaust

thunder: i'm just thinking the MAF is the restrction as far as letting more air coming in to supply the FAST 102 on lower RPM
I did not realize you had ported heads, though they were stock 243s.

With them being ported like that, I would be concerned. Your numbers are kinda low for mid size cam and ported ls6 heads, regardless of the intake. I would definitely be taking it to the track to get a MPH for the car.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:29 AM   #9
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I would definitely ditch the stock lid and MAF. Any reason why you are running a stock lid on a H/C car? I would have bought a lid way before spending the money on a FAST intake. A lid is the most basic mod you can possibly do.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #10
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Get rid of that stock lid ASAP, and I'd upgrade the maf while your at it. Then get some runs at the track. That will show more than a dyno graph.
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Old 04-05-2012, 11:56 AM   #11
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it's not the stock lid, but it's a stock size lid, not 98mm or 104mm. i'm going to get 100mm MAF and 104mm lid, and see if i pick up anything.

The lid and the MAF were already there when i bought the car. i bought the car with the following combo:

ported 243 heads(c5z06)yella terra billet rocker arms-hardened pushrods
232 234 .595 .598 cam
mac midlengths headers
borla exhaust
bmr torque arm
subframes
LCA
T/A girdle stock 10bolt 373 gears
ls6 intake
ls2 timing chain
lid
36lb injectors
ls7 clutch

made 425/408 on a dynojet

since then here's what i've changed on the car:
Hooker 1 7/8" LT with E-cutout
FAST 102/NW 102 TB
swap the PCV to LS6 PCV style(swapped to LS6 valley cover)
Poly motor mounts and transmission mount.

net me 438/401 on a dynojet 414/365 on a mustang dyno

I'm pretty sure my MAF right now is NOT a restriction but i'm just thinking if i can let more air coming in by swapping to 100mm MAF and 104mm lid then i'll do it.
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LQ9, Torq V2 232/234, Hooker 1 7/8
FAST102/FAST92, TFS 215 milled 61cc
Moser 9" 3.70 true trac
Cutout closed= 432/398 mustang dyno
Cutout open = 437/403 mustang dyno
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raysadude View Post

net me 438/401 on a dynojet 414/365 on a mustang dyno

I'm pretty sure my MAF right now is NOT a restriction but i'm just thinking if i can let more air coming in by swapping to 100mm MAF and 104mm lid then i'll do it.
Gotcha, well those numbers aren't bad. I was wrong and thought I read 413rwhp on a dynojet.

For what it's worth I swapped my MAF for the bigger GM one and gained nothing...but I'm also not running fully ported heads.

It could possibly help but kind of expensive to find out.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:06 PM   #13
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I think the tune needs to be looked at ...

I've never seen a loss from an LS6 to any FAST intake... they always pick up power if tuned properly

if your A/F didnt change from one intake to the other, then you obviously either have a restriction
your best test to find out is just to pull off everything in front of the TB and do another few pulls....if it still doesnt change, then you have a whole other problem to solve...

It should make more power everywhere.

also... you cant do a different day comparison and have it be 100% accurate...
so many things make a difference..and dyno correction factors are not perfect
I would bet you have totally different results if you did a same day swap on the dyno

and it says corrected... but is it SAE or STD?
I know a lot of operators who dont know the difference, and dont understand that they need to use SAE for it to be in the ball park from day to day
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:14 PM   #14
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the numbers are corrected for weather they are SAE, the dynojet was STD smoothing:3, and we did a pull with the lid off and actually lose power, it made 406 with lid off, just straight from MAF, my AFR was all over the place on that run.

the LS6 intake run was made on a 65 degree day, yesterday was 68 degree, numbers were corrected for weather.

i'll get FTP 104mm lid and 100mm MAF re tune the car, i've got nothing to lose i guess, unless bigger MAF and Lid cost me more power then i'll swap everything back to where they were...
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LQ9, Torq V2 232/234, Hooker 1 7/8
FAST102/FAST92, TFS 215 milled 61cc
Moser 9" 3.70 true trac
Cutout closed= 432/398 mustang dyno
Cutout open = 437/403 mustang dyno
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:24 PM   #15
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yeah... something is wrong in the tune if it lost power pulling stuff out of the way..


Quote:
so there 9 rwhp/ 4rwtq to my ls6 intake and stock ported TB.
that intake is good for 15-20 HP over an LS6 intake with a proper tune


not having any plumbing in front of the MAF will cause sporadic AFR
same issue happens when you put a 104 MAF on your car.. people have issues with getting AFR to stabilize.. because they dont have enough plumbing in front of the MAF to properly smooth and direct the airflow for it to read correctly

if you pull stuff out of the way from in front of the TB, you have to do a pull in SD...
If your Dyno guy is worth a crap, he will know how to tune in SD to do a pull or two to test
If he's just a dummy that straps your car down and does 3 pulls, then you should go somewhere else.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderstruck507 View Post
I did not realize you had ported heads, though they were stock 243s.

With them being ported like that, I would be concerned. Your numbers are kinda low for mid size cam and ported ls6 heads, regardless of the intake. I would definitely be taking it to the track to get a MPH for the car.
Yikes! Likewise, didn't realize you already had aftermarket ported heads. Something is up here.

A cheap and easy place to start would be to ditch the stock lid and then you can work back from there.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:29 PM   #17
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also.. with your mods...
on a Dyno Jet
you should make 440~ 450 HP to the tires...
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:49 PM   #18
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Just one of many examples on this forum showing that the Fast intakes make more power than the LS6 intake.,...everywhere...all rpm's..

Fast 90 -Vs- LS6 intake
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:54 PM   #19
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this image...is effectively an LS1, vs LS6, vs Fast 92
all on the same day...all intakes swapped in the dyno

Click the image to open in full size.


Just more data to show your issues are most likely in your tune
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:20 PM   #20
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i trust my tuner 100%

when i get the 100mm MAF i'll get the saxonpc honeycomb airflow straightener to help smoothing the air flow

is the above dyno graph is from 347/367 ci?

i agree something wrong with my setup, but i just can't figure out how after the FAST 102 my car did not run lean at all, and the AFR stays the same
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Tuned by Glen Lipinski and Bo Woody
LQ9, Torq V2 232/234, Hooker 1 7/8
FAST102/FAST92, TFS 215 milled 61cc
Moser 9" 3.70 true trac
Cutout closed= 432/398 mustang dyno
Cutout open = 437/403 mustang dyno
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:20 PM
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