Running w/o damper?
03-07-2013, 02:14 PM
#1
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: wa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Running w/o damper? After getting off the phone with Schwanke , i was told i may be wasting my money getting a ATI Damper. I have a 2000 Ls1 with a ASA Lingenfelter Single stage dry sump that runs off the AC drive. Lingenfelter originally built them with a 60% underdrive and a ATI Damper,,,, according the Schwanke... As im on a extremely low budget( PRO-Am Drifter) He told me i would be just fine buying the Underdrive hub and buy the ATI damper whenever or not at all. He told me they built plenty of LS1 road racing motors 500 +hp with no Dampers at all and that its pretty unneccasary unless im spinning super high revs and super high HP. Just wanting some confirmation from other people ,, but im pretty inclined to believe Schwanke!!!! Not that i dont want the insurance,, just like i said my budget is non existent, and just blew my entire tax return at TEXAS Speed on a cam kit 
03-07-2013, 03:48 PM
#7
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the OP is saying he was told not to run a crank pulley -- just that he didn't need to spend $400-$500 on an ATI Superdamper.
If you're really broke, I'm sure you could get a used stock crank pulley for cheap or free. Otherwise, go with SLP/Proform or ASP for under $200.
If you're really broke, I'm sure you could get a used stock crank pulley for cheap or free. Otherwise, go with SLP/Proform or ASP for under $200.
Trending Topics
03-07-2013, 04:16 PM
#9
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: wa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Correct i was told that I did not need to run a DAMPER at all. The only reason im changing the stock one out is to to put a 60% underdrive hub/pulley so that my dry sump pump is running at the right speed. I was running a stock damper/pulley before, but apparently i was over speeding my pump quite a bit.. Which is why my pump was cavitating. I was told that running w/o a damper would not be bad at all and that many race car engines they build do not run dampers. I personally think that its probably a good idea to go ahead and buy the ati damper ,, but the season starts in a month and i am very low on money and its something i can easily add later.
I see no reason for Schwanke to mislead me in this as I may potentially purchase the parts from them. They are a extremely reputable company and build a lot of ls1 road race engines . I was hoping someone from Lingenfelter might chime in on this.
I see no reason for Schwanke to mislead me in this as I may potentially purchase the parts from them. They are a extremely reputable company and build a lot of ls1 road race engines . I was hoping someone from Lingenfelter might chime in on this.
03-09-2013, 12:50 PM
#10
12 Second Club
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Bucks County, Pa.
Posts: 4,273
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just cannot see a screamer road race LSx not running a great damper/balancer even if it is internally balanced right on down to a millionth of a microgram!!!!!!!! 
(As even the MOST perfectly balanced build STILL produces {2nd order?} crank harmonics just due to the nature of the cylinder firing pulses, which could eventually/potentially crack even a forged crank.
)
But I guess if they say it happens.
(As even the MOST perfectly balanced build STILL produces {2nd order?} crank harmonics just due to the nature of the cylinder firing pulses, which could eventually/potentially crack even a forged crank.
)But I guess if they say it happens.
03-09-2013, 02:17 PM
#11
Hey kettheyoang, welcome to LS1tech!
If any shop told me to run any engine without a damper, it'd be the last thing they told me. I'd turn right around and walk out never to consider them a "proper" shop again.
Suffice to say, there's plenty of reasons that a damper is required on an engine.
As you're on a tight budget, at minimum run a stock damper and keep your revs below 5,500 RPM.
If any shop told me to run any engine without a damper, it'd be the last thing they told me. I'd turn right around and walk out never to consider them a "proper" shop again.
Suffice to say, there's plenty of reasons that a damper is required on an engine.
As you're on a tight budget, at minimum run a stock damper and keep your revs below 5,500 RPM.
03-09-2013, 10:44 PM
#14
Correct i was told that I did not need to run a DAMPER at all. The only reason im changing the stock one out is to to put a 60% underdrive hub/pulley so that my dry sump pump is running at the right speed. I was running a stock damper/pulley before, but apparently i was over speeding my pump quite a bit.. Which is why my pump was cavitating. I was told that running w/o a damper would not be bad at all and that many race car engines they build do not run dampers. I personally think that its probably a good idea to go ahead and buy the ati damper ,, but the season starts in a month and i am very low on money and its something i can easily add later.
I see no reason for Schwanke to mislead me in this as I may potentially purchase the parts from them. They are a extremely reputable company and build a lot of ls1 road race engines . I was hoping someone from Lingenfelter might chime in on this.
I see no reason for Schwanke to mislead me in this as I may potentially purchase the parts from them. They are a extremely reputable company and build a lot of ls1 road race engines . I was hoping someone from Lingenfelter might chime in on this.
03-10-2013, 07:46 AM
#15
a few of you could reread the first post, he is pretty specific about possibly running a hub with no damper.
I would tend to agree with Paul far as never going back to a vendor who said such a thing.
I would tend to agree with Paul far as never going back to a vendor who said such a thing.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; 03-10-2013 at 02:17 PM.
03-16-2013, 01:35 AM
#16
Teching In
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: wa
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have no doubt guy from Schwanke engines knew what he was talking about. I would not hesitate to run one of their Built motors in my car ,, granted i could ever afford one, or they sponsor me
Also talked to Jason Haines from Lingefelter and this is what I got back....
Needing a damper depends on the engine. What RPM range. The higher the RPM range (the broader the RPM range) the more likely you are to need it. For drag racing it becomes less of an issue since you don't tend to sit at one RPM for long. For durability applications it is more important (circle track/road racing/marine).
The more horsepower you make, the more likely you are to need it.
The heavier your driveline is, the more you will need it.
We did a test for GM during the ASA program when they were going to switch over to the LS6 engines (just before ASA went out of business). On a lightweight circle track car with a small diameter, lightweight clutch (low inertia) and lightweight transmission etc. on a basically stock LS6 engine (with headers making a little over 400 hp and going to 6400 RPM) a damper was found not to be needed.
The heavier the driveline and the more hp and rpm range you have, the more likely you are to need one.
Quote:
HOWEVER!!!! I have a heavy steel driveline, stock steel flywheel, and i sit at 6200 rpms till my tires blow sooooooo...... ATI Damper it is! When it comes to the safety of my motor i will errrr with the side of caution. One missed race and i could be out of running for my professional license, and thats the dream so i consider the 400$ as a insurance premium for my dreams..plus i just won 500$ in the weekly poker game
Guess god wanted me to have one
Also talked to Jason Haines from Lingefelter and this is what I got back....
Needing a damper depends on the engine. What RPM range. The higher the RPM range (the broader the RPM range) the more likely you are to need it. For drag racing it becomes less of an issue since you don't tend to sit at one RPM for long. For durability applications it is more important (circle track/road racing/marine).
The more horsepower you make, the more likely you are to need it.
The heavier your driveline is, the more you will need it.
We did a test for GM during the ASA program when they were going to switch over to the LS6 engines (just before ASA went out of business). On a lightweight circle track car with a small diameter, lightweight clutch (low inertia) and lightweight transmission etc. on a basically stock LS6 engine (with headers making a little over 400 hp and going to 6400 RPM) a damper was found not to be needed.
The heavier the driveline and the more hp and rpm range you have, the more likely you are to need one.
Quote:
HOWEVER!!!! I have a heavy steel driveline, stock steel flywheel, and i sit at 6200 rpms till my tires blow sooooooo...... ATI Damper it is! When it comes to the safety of my motor i will errrr with the side of caution. One missed race and i could be out of running for my professional license, and thats the dream so i consider the 400$ as a insurance premium for my dreams..plus i just won 500$ in the weekly poker game
Guess god wanted me to have one
03-17-2013, 07:28 PM
#19
This seems silly.
Cost: If you can't afford a balancer, you shouldn't be trying to build/drive a race car.
Space: So, you'd cut off the crank snout to save space?
Mass: It's this very mass that reduces harmful harmonics for the crankshaft.
Cost: If you can't afford a balancer, you shouldn't be trying to build/drive a race car.
Space: So, you'd cut off the crank snout to save space?
Mass: It's this very mass that reduces harmful harmonics for the crankshaft.
03-17-2013, 08:15 PM
#20
10 Second Club
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Winchester, VA
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
if you can't swing a damper your racing career will be short and heartbreakingI can get the idea of reducing rotating mass. I have thought of putting mine on a lathe a cutting down the ac pulley since I don't have ac. However I can't see the point of investing in a motor and not having the insurance of a nice damper.
Last edited by 1320Chicken; 03-17-2013 at 08:24 PM.