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eBay headers are 1-5/8 primaries

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Old 06-08-2013, 07:49 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post
Too many people post that they are selling a 1 7/8" header because they measure the header flange opening, which is a universal piece that everyone uses to build their headers, but it's the actual primaries that make the difference.
Quoted for truth.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:18 PM   #22
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I recently ordered a set from DNAmotoring and thought I'd add my measurements. Mine are pretty much identical to the OPs measurements. Overall quality of the headers are impressive for the price. I cut off and welded shut the AIR flanges and EGR because I didn't want to run the risk of it breaking off/cracking over time.





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Old 06-08-2013, 07:26 PM   #23
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That is what I'm talking about. The welded section right after the inlet probably reduces the inlet size to about 1.5"! Could you measure that cross-section?
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:42 PM   #24
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There's no point in measuring the header flange, they are use the same ones.
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:45 PM   #25
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Just measured the welded section after the inlet. It's 1.627
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Alchemist View Post
There's no point in measuring the header flange, they are use the same ones.
Yeah, it was mainly just to make sure the caliper was somewhat accurate. It's a cheap one from Harbor Freight lol
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:10 PM   #27
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true, but check out ds98formula's build thread link above. he got pretty good results with these things on a stock motor. 1 5/8 is fine for a mild old school small block, and also true for our ls1's. the difference is that these ls1's breath heavier and want to rev more so the bigger primaries do help, but the smaller cheapies still do pick up some decent hp. they prob arent ideal for a head/intake/cam car, but in any case they are a signifacant improvement over stock. what bugs me is why cant people just make true 1 3/4 that would cost a tad more than the 1 5/8? what would the step up really cost? annoying.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:30 PM   #28
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i would like to see some name brand ones checked just for comparison
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:37 PM   #29
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Almost all if not all headers are measure OD. You're wasting our time with this foolish thread. And, you're eating $60 to send them back over 1/8". Foolish number 2. Then you will order a brand name header and find out it is measure OD too. Then you'll start another thread bashing them. Foolish number 3.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:32 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01ssreda4 View Post
Almost all if not all headers are measure OD. You're wasting our time with this foolish thread. And, you're eating $60 to send them back over 1/8". Foolish number 2. Then you will order a brand name header and find out it is measure OD too. Then you'll start another thread bashing them. Foolish number 3.
After I returned the eBay headers, I bit the bullet and purchased some Kooks from Maryland Speed. I measured their ID and it was 1 7/8's with no flare.

People report better numbers after switching from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8"s. Like these guys:

+32/21 - BBK's/Y-Pipe/SLP Dual to Kooks 1 7/8"s/Kooks Dual Exhaust


BBK headers and y pipe to Kooks 1 7/8 and dual exhaust

+20/15 - Kooks 1 3/4" to Kooks 1 7/8"

BBK headers and y pipe to Kooks 1 7/8 and dual exhaust

The difference was only 1/8". I may seem miniscule but going from 1 5/8 - 1 3/4 is an increase of 8% [(1.75-1.625)/1.625]= 8%. Going from 1 5/8 to 1 7/8 is an increase of 15% [(1.875-1.625)/1.625]=15%. That is a modest increase.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:34 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvinator View Post
I recently ordered a set from DNAmotoring and thought I'd add my measurements.
Awesome! Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by omc8 View Post
What is the gauge of the tube wall. Have you measured it? If its presently 16, and they go to thin wall 18ga on there new race version then they will flow very close to 1 3/4 . They can keep the the same OD , but by going to a higher gauge they will be increasing the ID and they will flow close to 1 3/4 But the end result is a cheaper product .
Unfortunately, I measured everything except the wall thickness; however, it was certainly thin compared to anything I've seen with the name-brand headers (as is obvious in the pictures). So, even if Speed Engineering says theirs is also thin-wall and will flow close to a 1-3/4" primary, it's still the same, inexpensive Chinese 1-5/8" stainless that their eBay competitors are selling for a lot less (that they're advertising as a 1-3/4" - which it isn't).

At the end of the day, we need to determine the honest size of the primaries and the gauge of steel they're using. This it the only way to compare the brands at this point since now even a sponsor is advertising 1-3/4" primaries that are actually 1-5/8". I'd love for someone to measure their TSP primaries...

EDIT: I should have thought about this before, but we can determine the gauge because I measured the OD and ID of the collector. At 3.002 OD and 2.862 ID, that leaves us at 0.14/2= 0.07" or 15g ( http://www.engineersedge.com/gauge.htm ).

Last edited by demonspeed; 06-12-2013 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:40 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01ssreda4 View Post
Almost all if not all headers are measure OD. You're wasting our time with this foolish thread. And, you're eating $60 to send them back over 1/8". Foolish number 2. Then you will order a brand name header and find out it is measure OD too. Then you'll start another thread bashing them. Foolish number 3.

Did you even read the original post? I measured OD. The brands listed at the beginning of the thread (yes, even a sponsor who advertises 1-3/4") are 1-5/8".

Further, it's not about the $60. It was about how one can save +/-$500 over name-brand 1-3/4" headers by going with -- what we assumed -- were super-affordable eBay headers of the same size..... which we now know are 1-5/8".

With this thread, I think we've determined (in context of price):

Budget: 1-5/8" eBay headers (this includes Speed Engineering for the time being)
Middle-of-the-pack: 1-3/4" Pacesetter, hooker, or even TSP (or used name brand)
All-out: 1-7/8" TSP or name brand

At the end of the day, if one is saving this much money by buying on eBay, they're getting the smallest primaries available, which is 1-5/8" OD and 14g steel

Last edited by demonspeed; 06-10-2013 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:47 PM   #33
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This is why i went with pacesetters, not that much difference but i paid $40 more and atleast i know they are actually 1 3/4, or atleast i think they are lol.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:07 PM   #34
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I wouldn't necessarily call TSP middle of the pack. They're definitely well ahead of Pacesetter.

ARH measure their headers by OD as well.

Again, tubing (less than 12" diameter) is measured by OD. Pipe (greater than 12") is measured by ID.
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Old 06-09-2013, 01:12 PM   #35
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I wouldn't necessarily call TSP middle of the pack. They're definitely well ahead of Pacesetter.
Sorry, that was meant in the context of price -- not quality. I see how you would have inferred what you did, though.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:10 PM   #36
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This is why i went with pacesetters, not that much difference but i paid $40 more and atleast i know they are actually 1 3/4, or atleast i think they are lol.
would you mind checking for us
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Old 06-09-2013, 07:44 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by dr_whigham View Post
I wouldn't necessarily call TSP middle of the pack. They're definitely well ahead of Pacesetter.

.
For the record, the headers in question are made by the same company that makes the newer TSP headers.
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Old 06-10-2013, 12:24 AM   #38
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I understand ARH and Kooks are top of the line, so with an exception to those two brands, ALL others will not measure true to the stated specs I'd be willing to bet. Its been like this FOREVER. Carry on.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:30 AM   #39
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I understand ARH and Kooks are top of the line, so with an exception to those two brands, ALL others will not measure true to the stated specs I'd be willing to bet. Its been like this FOREVER. Carry on.
If it's been like this forever, then please provide empirical evidence.
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Old 06-10-2013, 02:45 PM   #40
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If it's been like this forever, then please provide empirical evidence.
I don't think he could, maybe anecdotal evidence. Either way, he shouldn't be knocking us because we are seeking actual LS1 TECHnical data - the whole premise of this forum.
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