kkslds

iTrader: (59)

I'm looking to upgrade my stock 241 heads on my 02 Camaro with 71k miles. As usual I over complicate things and I'm having a tough time deciding on which heads to buy. Mods for the car are:

Ls6 intake (for now)
Trex 242/248 610/615 110+2
Harland Sharp trunion upgrade
BTR SLR lifters with new ls2 trays
Katech rod bolts
Katech oil pump with girdle
Katech c5r timing chain & dampner
.080" I & E valve reliefs
Ati super damper
Kooks 1 7/8 with true duals ota

If my calculations were right I could do a 59cc head with a .040 gasket and be around 11.59 static compression and 8.54 dynamic. That was factoring a deck height of -.005 and a 1cc valve relief (maybe more like 2).

With that being said I would be looking at sending my 241 heads in for the hcr 219 package milled to 59cc or possibly 58cc since they would allow for more clearance by design. They are $1145 plus the ride both ways and do not include valve springs.

The other option is the stage II 243 heads from Livernois. They are $1499 fully assembled with milling being an additional charge I'm sure.

I already have a new set of BTR platinum .660" springs that I would send in with my 241s, or I could sell them if I bought the Livernois heads. They are about the same price after its all said and done and it makes for a tough decision. I like the idea of not having to hassle with shipping mine into Livernois, but I can't find hardly any results (on either company for that matter with large cams).

I flycut with a set of stock 853s I had so I believe tfs are out of the question with the different valve angle. I'm looking at some of the stock valve higher velocity heads to aid in the midrange and I believe the trex's top end power generally speaks for itself. All these mods - the ls6 intake are new and just recently installed. The motor is out of the car waiting on heads to go back in. Time is also a factor.

HCI2000SS

iTrader: (2)

Well either one would perform great with enough compression, but if you do the 243's you could sell your 241's. Just something to consider. Also the 243's might do a little better in supporting such a big cam

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

If you search on here ther is a thread where a guy had great results with the Livernois heads. Then on the other hand, there are two threads were guys made great numbers with the AI 241 heads. Moral of the story; both will yield great results.

mac62989

iTrader: (1)

Do the Livernois heads use stock valves? If not Id say AI just because you have a big *** cam there.

kkslds

iTrader: (59)

Yes they use stock valves. It says they use seasoned 243 or 799 cores so I'm not sure if they are the sodium filled exhaust valves or not.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Here you go OP. Check out these three threads. I know the one regarding the Livernois heads are the stage III, but still a good referrence point.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...d-results.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...o-results.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...m-results.html

mac62989

iTrader: (1)

I doubt their LS6 243s. Rise posted up some good links there.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Here are some more good reads: In my opinion, do as much research as you can and contact both companies so you can get a feel for their customer service and see if you think they can meet your goals.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...e-3-heads.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...-any-good.html

https://ls1tech.com/forums/sponsor-g...243-heads.html

redtan

iTrader: (5)

I would imagine well ported 243s would still be better than well ported 241s, even with the higher compression. You can always mill the 243s to get the same compression.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

But not the same piston to valve clearance. That may be a factor if he doesn't want to fly-cut.

redtan

iTrader: (5)

Why's that? Don't 241s come with a bigger chamber than 243s? Thus you would have to cut them more to achieve the same chamber cc? So the 243s @ 59cc would have better PTV than the HCR 241s @ 59cc

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

This is right from AI's website: You may be right, but the way I read it, it seems like with the port job they do on the 241's, they are able to mill more to acheive a higher compression, yet have better piston to valve clearance.

While often swapped out in favor of 243's, the venerable 241 is still capable of producing great power for the $ considering how cheaply the castings can be obtained. Of the features of the 241 that are less than ideal, the large open chamber is the primary detraction. With our High Compression 241 CNC work we have managed to not only alleviate the issue, but to create a chamber design as good or better than the vaunted 243 casting. No longer will 241 applications be forced to trade compression for piston to valve clearance. Our HCR 241 will generate 11:1 compression on a stock 346cid LS1 while retaining the stock available P2V which allows the use of large duration cams without cutting piston reliefs! Static compression ratios into the 12.X:1 range are possible. Furthermore, at only 15 cc over stock volume this particular porting option sees gains of over 55 cfm on the intake utilizing a factory GM 2.00" valve. Typical gains for this CNC work are in the 40-55rwhp SAE range over the as cast 241, and 346cid LS1's can manage 440-470rwhp SAE with bolt ons and one of our daily drivable HR cam grinds.

kkslds

iTrader: (59)

The hcr 241 combustion chamber is welded and reworked to a more desirable shape. Also increasing compression to 11:1 with stock ptv clearance. Starting out at 11:1, less material will need removed to yield the same compression ration as a 243 milled to equal compression ratios. The hcr 241 at equal compression ratio will have better ptv clearance.

I have already flycut .080 intake and exhaust

kkslds

iTrader: (59)

Thank you for some of the links. I have read many of them and I try to do as much research as possible, which sometimes leads me here just looking for another point if view.

I've been in contact with AI and Livernois. I think AI probably makes a great product, but when it comes to budget I don't think its as much of a bargain as everyone makes it out to be. Labor only is $1145, I have to ship my cores in which is probably $100 round trip, and valve springs are another $300. That's $1545 for ported 241s.


Livernois currently has a sale for their stage 1 ls6 heads (799s) and are identical to their stage 2 heads without the upgraded valve springs. The package includes arp head bolts and gm head gaskets (neither of which I need, but it's cheaper as a package) for $999.99 plus $200 core. Even with a core charge their still only $1199. Now that's with ls7 valve springs which won't work for me, but I will replace them with my BTR platinums and have a set of springs to sell.

To sum it up I'll have roughly $1500 in either head, but with the Livernois I'll have a new ls7 spring kit, arp head bolts, and gm head gaskets to sell which I'm confident would bring $200 on the safe side netting a total investment of $1300 for ls6 heads and still have a set of 241s to sell. Their ready to ship also whereas AI is 4-5 weeks out.

Thoughts before I call and place my order with Livernois?

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Sounds like you made up your mind.

kkslds

iTrader: (59)

So thought... Doing a little more searching I'm baffled by the ls7 springs that come on them. I planned on changing them anyway, but I'm not sure what their intentions were from the research I've done. Here is the link that I found.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...what-they.html

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

Just sell the LS7 springs and run the ones you have.

kkslds

iTrader: (59)

That's the plan, I'm just confused on how they get them to work to .575" lift. If I'm going to sell them I would like to be in the know for any person interested in buying them. I called and talked to the, but never got an answer more than their good to .575" lift.

Rise of the Phoenix

iTrader: (27)

You should be able to sell them pretty easily I'd assume. When are you placing your order? I think you're making a good decision. Did you ever think of just ordering their stage 3 heads? Before I bought my Advanced Induction Dart/RHS CNC'd heads, I seriously considered their stage 3's. Username "Flynavy" had awesome results with them.

kkslds

iTrader: (59)

No I didn't. My original intention was to do cam only. Doing heads was one of those things I decided to do after I was already into it. I was mainly looking for the "best bang for the buck deal", as well as something that could hopefully take me over the 450rwhp mark. I'm confident a made a good decision for both of my goals, but I'll just have to wait and see. I don't know if the stage 3s would have made enough increase to justify the cost. I would like to put the other money towards a FAST 92 or 102 setup.

I purchased the heads yesterday. They are coming milled .015" since that's how they were already set up for the sale. Next week when I get them I'll take them to my local machine shop and have them cc'd to see how much further I want to mill them. Also have my springs installed while they're there.